Purple gorgonian Sea Blade problems

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EvilTwin

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Feb 20, 2006
Messages
46
A few weeks ago I received a Purple Sea Blade Gorgonian as a freebie frag with an order of hermits and snails that I bought. After putting it in my tank it opened up and seemed ok. Polyp extension was nice and I even got some cool pictures. I had to go away for business last week. The tank was in my wife's capable hands but all she was really doing was feedings, no dosing. When I returned, the gorg had started to decline in health. The blades had some white splotchy areas and the polyps had all started to turn brown in color, with very little extension.

At this point, the blades appear to be deteriorating and the round skeleton is viewable. The blade fles nearly disintegrates on contact, but there is still some response by a few of the polyps in some areas. Is there anything I can do to save this?

Water params are really good. I even did a good water change this weekend to bring the nitrates down, but they weren't that high to begin with.
 
What is the nitrate level? Please give a number.

Here are a few more standard questions...

How big is the tank?
How long has it been up and running with fish in it?
What type of filters (including protein skimmers and refugiums)?
Type of lighting?
Total wattage of lighting?

These corals are not at all easy. They seem to damage fairly easily and may be due to a susceptability to infections. What I do to try and save the coral is snip off the good parts from the bad parts, soak in a coral anticeptic dip and place back in the tank where the light and water flow are most appropriate. Should be well anchored and protected from falling. When handling coral, it is best to use gloves like surgeon gloves. They are thin enough to allow you to feel what you need to feel, but protects the coral from the acids on your fingers. Don't expect any miracles. Coral disease and meds are still far out from common knowledge. It's an area of coral husbandry that is still wide open for discovery. Good luck.
 
Nitrates are at 5 ppm
Tank is a 75g standard 4 ft tank
This tank has been in place for a month. I migrated from a 60g hex to this more appropriate size for SW. Everything from the previous tank was transferred over, including water and substrate. This gorg was not acquired until after the move.
Filtration is 50 lbs of LR and a skimmer
Lighting is 260w of 50/50 PC/Actinics
I had plenty of flow on this as I know they require it. This is really a shame as I hate to see anything die in my tanks. I am curious about the white splotches that formed on the blades. My first thought was some type of disease. Here's some pics.


Pic when I first got it:
img_604850_0_4caa6dc3498d9f3ee5a25b4c0d3592b6.jpg


Pic after a few days:
img_604850_1_6b84e5fa248fa6d55ff7391130f063f5.jpg

img_604850_2_e9d1783e0a532f8adbd43c420eda5fb9.jpg


Pic taken yesterday:
img_604850_3_b2dbeab464f0e01877fea4c77e4f9f61.jpg
 
gorgonia

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=coral+diseases

Here is a Google search on coral diseases. May help. One thing to keep in mind, wild diseases may be very different than what they pick up during transport in captivity. Though there may be something relative to what the gorgonia is experiencing.

I or anyone else cannot be at all positive about the recovery of this coral.

The nitrate levels are fine. 05 ppm is actually OK for reef. That'll allow macro algae to have something to eat :)

The tank is too new and being it was moved, is still too new for sensitive animals. I have seen a lot of things online stating these gorgonias are good starter coral, but they are NOT. This is a deep reef coral that do not like light and must be fed everyday. It can be target fed phytoplankton on the off days of feeding the rest of the tank. This is done with a turkey baster type or syringe and the food is pushed right onto the coral. Do this mainly toward the evening. Most deep reef coral are nocturnal feeders, but if the polyps are out during the day, then by all means give it some food :)

Check to see if this species requires an iodine suppliment.

Here are a couple of photos I doctored so you can see where to cut. If you do not cut the bad areas, the infection that is overcoming the coral can spread.

NOTE: Instead of bleach water as I mentioned before to sterilize a pair of small sharp scissors, use rubbing alcohol instead. Faster and easier. Rinse it well prior to use. Handle the coral by it's base and remember to wear thin hugging to your hands gloves...like surgeon gloves. If you do not have access to gloves, then a sandwich baggie or a piece of cellophane (some kind of thin plastic that doesn't have any coloring) over your hands to protect the coral.

http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/ReefDip.html

Here is the reef dip I mentioned in the other post. Use this to treat the good pieces. Any bad pieces that may not be eaten all the way through could be put into a QT type to see if anything heals. The good pieces can go back into the main tank straight into the substrate in a shady area with good water flow.

What kind of rock is that do you have it set in???
What is the SG and temp. of the tank?
What are the values of calcium and alkalinity?

What kind of camera do you have? Nice shots!!
 
Sorry...had to do another post for a separate photo...don't know what the problem is...but here's the other photo...

OK...something is obviously wrong here...I'll get that other photo for you in a few. Gonna check extension...

I apologize.
 
Thanks VERY much for all of the support. I guess I should have asked days ago and maybe things wouldn't have been so bad. The stalks deteriorated a bit more but I understand what you indicate needs to be done from the pictures you posted. I will get the reef dip and give that a try.

Regarding your questions:

The gorg is attached a an aragocrete plug. It was like that when I got the frag.

SG is 1.023. Temp is 80 degrees and barely fluctuates.

Calcium is 400. Alk I only have test strips for, and does not provide the usual measurement. I need to get a good test kit.

My camera is a Canon Powershot G5, a 5 megapixel digital that is fully manual as well as automatic. If you'd like to see my other pics you can see them here:

http://photobucket.com/albums/e235/Tracer1989/Aquarium/
 
I do need to go pick up my son from school, but I wanted to leave a quickie note, then I'll add more later to the thread...

Lower the temp to about 76 degrees, but do it slowly. A degree or two ever 4 to six hours or so.

I'll get back with you later.
 
TCTFish said:
I do need to go pick up my son from school, but I wanted to leave a quickie note, then I'll add more later to the thread...

Lower the temp to about 76 degrees, but do it slowly. A degree or two ever 4 to six hours or so.

I'll get back with you later.

Won't this impact my other inhabitants? I'm guessing fish, not so much , but I have other corals and inverts in my tank. Check my pics.
 
Won't this impact my other inhabitants? I'm guessing fish, not so much , but I have other corals and inverts in my tank.

The 'impact' is a positive one. Generally it's 77 degrees, but I don't think that's an option on the heater as 76 degrees is. You could set it for 78 degrees, but depending on where you live and the current climate, you may opt for a lower temp. to control the lower end of the temp. 80 Degrees IMO is too close to the higher end of the temp. limit. Then again I live in Southern California and temp is a common concern here among aquarists especially with reefs. Chillers seem to be a requirement here for tanks over 50 gallons to control the higher end of temp limits. Here's some info. on temperatures for marine. It includes sort of a comparison between temps in the ocean and temps in a closed system (an aquarium). Pretty interesting.

http://tricitytropicals.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=1
 
I took your advice and picked up a bottle of ReefDip at the LFS last night. When I got home I did a dip for about 15 minutes in a small 1 gallon container. At that time, all of the polyps had retracted. I snipped the pieces of the inner skeleton that had been exposed due to the flesh deteriorating. This was only in the areas near the tips. I did not clip near the base as I didn't have any epoxy to reglue to the rock. I placed it back in the tank. on the bottom in an area with good, indirect flow.

This morning, after the lights came up, there was still many polyps that extended, but they are still brown. So at least it is not completely dead.

Thanks for the read on water quality. I'll be sure to read it. I'm in PA, and my tank is in my finished basement. Temp stays very constant down there, so I don't really have a need for a chiller. In fact the room temp is a fairly constant 72 degrees.

I checked alkalinity and it was 4.23 meq/l, roughly 11 dkh, IIRC, which seems to be appropriate. PH was low, and I attribute that to a large water change I did (after the gorg was having trouble). I added a buffer to bring it up a little. It was at 8.2 when I checked this morning.
 
The reef dip gives the coral a complexed layer of slime to keep bacteria out allowing for the flesh to heal. It's like a 'medicated' band aid. The coral is still left on it's own to heal. Now all you can do is wait.

Snipped pieces can be planted right into the substrate instead of glued onto a rock. They can be glued later if and when the pieces heal. If they do, you'll be growing a few pieces of the coral.

That's one way to propagate most soft and SPS coral...is to cut them. You can take a mushroom, cut it into four pieces...may three or just two.... and they will heal and grow into individuals. Colts and tree corals can be propagated by tying a thin string...preferrably sewing thread, around the base of a branch. It will eventually fall off. That piece is now a individual. Leathers, carnations, mushrooms, polyps, acropora, montipora, elephant coral, xenia, etc. can all be cut to make more.

The alkalinity is slightly high, though not by much. Alk levels should be between 2.5 and 4. Yours is at 4.23, so if you are adding any alkalinity additives, you may want to stop until the system shows it needs more. Calcium you mentioned is at 400. That's actually slightly low, but no biggie to the soft coral. 450 is the typical calcium level. You can continue adding a calcium suppliment until you reach 450. Sooner or later, you'll learn your tank as time goes on what it needs when. It's still new yet.

For future reference, whenever pH is low, check ammonia levels PRIOR to buffering pH. This is quite important because pH will naturally lower in the presence of ammonia to keep the toxin in a non toxic form called ammonium. Ammonia levels should be tended to first to avoid poisoning the livestock if ammonia is present.

I checked out your little photo gallery. Nice tank set up. I like the rock formation you got going there. I do have one comment...cover the power head intake with a prefilter. It will help protect the impeller from debris and can serve as a mechanical filter as well. Just rinse the sponge of the prefilter every so often to clean off debris. Needless to worry about any bio on it because of all the live rock.

I have a FujiFilm FinePix S7000 fully digital, yet can be fully manual too. The listed megapixel capacity is 6.2, but does have the ability to take 12 MP photos, which is excellent for those super macro shots. Even after a couple of years, I'm still learning the camera...LOL. Lots of little buttons and duhiggies, bells and whistles, whatever. I typically keep it set on a partial automatic setting. I'm putting together another gallery. I'll send you link once it's set up. I do a lot of computer graphics and make all sorts of things out of the photos I take. Got tons of aquarium photos of all sorts of fish and inverts. Over 10 gigs of aquarium photos alone. I like taking pictures :)

Please keep me updated and good luck. I've had very little success in healing gorgonias. It's like, most of the time when they get like that they don't seem to fully recover. Can only hope for the best. When populating a tank with coral, start with the easy mushrooms and polyps. As the tank matures, so many months down the line, then try another one, but do wait. Let the system grow and balance out first.

I use to go into PA long time ago. My mom's then boyfriend had some friends up in New Milford with a good portion of land. Beautiful up there especially during the fall when all the leaves on the trees are just a rainbow of color. I grew up in NJ for 22 years and once in a while we'd take a trip to Pensy to stay at their place. Next door neighbors were at least a quarter to half a mile down the road...LOL. I like that :) Neighbors can be ruly and it wouldn't matter!!
 
I had been checking ammonia as well as other tests and the ammonia has always been at zero. I'm pretty sure that's not the problem.

I have an additional 40 lbs of live rock that I will be adding to the tank in the next week. After I moved from th 60g hex to the 75g I really needed more rock to aquascape with. I'll be adding it to the right side of the tank to raise the whole structure up like the left. My intention was to take the basic lagoon type rock design and have one at each end of the tank. Looking down from above it looks like a big number three. It adds some depth to the structure when looking from the front of the tank and it avoids that "pile" look that I see so often when people just stack the rock against the back glass. To each his own. I like it this way.

I've changed powerheads in the past week or so and they have prefilters on them. I can see they will need to be cleaned often. Eventually I will build a nice closed loop.
 
If the coral actually survives the dip process, do not place it in the sand. Gorgonians do not slime, they form a waxy build up when they are in distress. The more the coral is stressed, the worse it will get. You end up plugging the coral up.

In the center of the gorg, there will be a thin reedy stalk similar to what a wooden pencil will look like if you cut it lengthwise. Trim off the dead/necrosing area until you get down to that core. Try to do so without breaking it, you will need that to resecure the gorg to something else. Placing it in the sand will just smother it and start the necrosis all over again. Use a coral plug or something else that can be drilled with a dremel just large enough so the newly cleaned stalk can be inserted. Once ready, fill the plug with superglue gel and slide in the core portion of the gorg. This will leave the healthy tissue free from the substrate or other irritants and can be placed in a good water flow area. They need decent flow to help remove/prevent the waxy build up on their tissues. Make sure it is not laminar flow though.

Here is a step by step guide that may help...
http://garf.org/100/gorg/GORG1.html

Since this coral is a filter feeder, you will also need to ensure it gets well fed. Phytoplankton and DT's oyster eggs being your best bet. You might also try Reef Roids but I think that will be too large.

What scleractinians do you have that are a concern in the way of Ca?

Cheers
Steve
 
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