ready to give up... lost 6 of 9 angels

[AngelFishGirl]

Long story short, I lost 6 angels in under a week to unknown causes. All fish were healthy and showing no symptoms until just a few hours before they died.
The only changes in the tank were adding sand (week and a half ago - no changes in any fish when added) and adding plants + a free breeding pair of angels last Wednesday.
Water parameters:
ammonia: .25
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 10ish
pH: don't remember, but it's not far from a neutral 7.

Story:
Friday I came home to find two of my angels, King and Galaxy, dead. My beloved Gracie, was dying. Her fins were clamped and she was breathing heavily, unable to swim upright. She was getting stuck to the filter, too weak to swim herself free.
In a panic, I got my friend to come pick up all remaining angelfish - since I was unable to do a water change until the next day.
She came and took all of them.
Saturday came - Gracie passed away over the night. I was told she was struggling to eat and seemed to regain a tiny bit of strength at midnight while trying to eat. She was dead by 6 am.
The day dragged on. I had done a 75% water change in my tank. There was nothing but 5 Cory Cats, one single molly, and one red tailed shark left in the tank.
Sunday, I got news at 7 am of my two breeding angels passing away sometime in the night. According to my friend, she saw absolutely nothing wrong with them at all. Feeling like the deaths were here fault, she sent back two of my remaining 4 angels (she kept two - one got injured during the transfer in the 5 gallon bucket so she was treating him and his mate so they didn't get seperated)
Monday went through fine. And tuesday was fine too until about 9 pm last night, I found my Koi angel acting strange. My red tailed shark was trying to "eat" him. He was trying to eat at his top fins, but in a very non aggressive away. Koi, on the other hand, didn't like it and would swim away - but the shark would always come back casually and try again, so I ended up moving Koi. As I reached into the tank with the net to get him, he didn't even move. He was already dying by the tank I divided him away from the shark. He was clamping his fins (all but pectoral) and couldn't get himself up from the substrate. He was trying, but couldn't lift the entire body off and stay up. When he got up (with my help with the net) he could swim for awhile on his own, but he would swim sideways or upside down and fall against the divider or the tank wall and slowly sink back down. I had to leave for school, so I said my goodbyes and left. I assume by now he is probably dead.

We have no idea what is going on. We thought it was something in my tank - until the two breeding angels passed away in my friend's tank.
Then we thought it was all better after no deaths - but two days later Koi died.
We think it's a disease but we don't know because it is ONLY affecting angels! The cory cats, the molly, and the shark are all fine! If it were the sand, wouldn't the cory cats and the shark be dead? They bury themselves into it! Plus there's been two water changes since it was added. I condition with Prime every time. I haven't started feeding any new foods.

And oddly enough, even though all of the adults are dying, I have 8 or 9 babies in my tank (and 3 at my friend's house) and NONE of them are dying are showing symptoms! ALL of the babies are fine! It's only the adults and ONLY angelfish that are being affected!

I don't know what to do! If I take down my tank and bleach and start all over I won't be able (allowed) to refill it and reset it up (my mom is strict) for a year until I move out. But... if I can't have angelfish, then I don't WANT to have a tank running period. I am out of ideas of what it could be.

I don't know what I should dose as far as meds. I don't know what's going on! Especially with no markings on the body before OR after death!
The only behavioral symptoms that suddenly appeared (for Gracie and Koi at least) were: clamping fins (not pectorals), breathing VERY heavily, weak - unable to outside filter, and swimming on side, (Koi only) unable to lift himself off the ground.

Please help I don't know what's going on... out of my 9 angels I've lost 6... I do weekly water changes at 25-30% and run double filtration for my tank... what could be the issue???

 

[AngelFishGirl]

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Alyxx]

It sounds a lot like what happened to my last group of angels. They were fine one day, then weak and dying then dead the next. I never did really figure out what happened but it only affected the angelfish.

It may be the so called "Angelfish AIDS" - a probably viral disease that only affects angels and is always fatal.

Did you quarantine those new fish? It seems like those free fish may have cost you your whole stock of angels. I've been there and it sucks. I lost my beloved pair a few years back because I didn't quarantine some new angels.

 

[AngelFishGirl]

It sounds a lot like what happened to my last group of angels. They were fine one day, then weak and dying then dead the next. I never did really figure out what happened but it only affected the angelfish.

It may be the so called "Angelfish AIDS" - a probably viral disease that only affects angels and is always fatal.

Did you quarantine those new fish? It seems like those free fish may have cost you your whole stock of angels. I've been there and it sucks. I lost my beloved pair a few years back because I didn't quarantine some new angels.

I just did an extensive amount of research on it - and i believe this is the only possible thing that could have happened. I believe my breeding pair are the carriers that brought it in. I only have one last angel outside of them.
I believe my only option is to get rid of her or wait for her to die - and then keep the breeding pair or take down my tank. It lasts in the water for 6 months, so I can't put any other angels in for at least that long. I don't want a tank without angels.

Why it hasn't killed the babies of the dad who originally died from it yet I don't know.

Is there ANY WAY I can make it so I can have angels again? If I have to wait that long, I'd rather take down the tank.

 

[Fishdude3233]

You could run bleach in the tank and than cycle it again... That way you don't have to empty it. I will give you a breeding pair of angels for free if you decide to go that route.

 

[Darkseid76]

From what I've read of that disease I would destroy that breeding pair also. Then start your tank from scratch if your unwilling to wait 6 months.

Also I hope this prompts you into investing in a quarantine tank. I lost a whole brood of platies to some disease because I introduced a new fish without proper quarantine. Sorry for your loss I know how it feels.

 

[jwh0818]

Yea id take the breeding pair out because from what im reading, its only a matter of time. Then aftwr there are no fish in this tank, take 10ml of bleach per 20g of water and add it to the tank with filters and all running. Wait 6 hours take it all down and rinse it off. Let it dry over 24hours and set back up with new media. Its your safest way to go

 

[AngelFishGirl]

Only problem is we have to carry it all the way down the stairs and back up. No WAY is my mom letting me do that! :/
Ugh... Is there a way to bleach clean WITHOUT replacing the filters and media?

 

[Alyxx]

I agree. You should put down the remaining angels because even if they appear healthy they are carriers, and will just keep the tank infected. I know it's hard but it's the only thing you can do. As for why the babies are ok, only time will tell. Are they in the same tank with the adults? Perhaps wait a few months after putting down the others to see if the babies make it, but to be honest they have now been exposed and will likely infect new angels even if they don't get sick. I think your best option is to put down all of the angels you have now, including the babies, move the other fish to a friend's house like you did with your angels, and then run bleach through it and start the cycle over. Run the bleach for a couple days, do a big water change, and add a big overdose of prime to get rid of the bleach. You can have your lfs test the water for chlorine to make sure it's all gone before starting the cycle over (or buy your own chlorine test kit, but it's not a test you really need to use a lot). Your friend may want to do the same thing since they housed the sick angels for you. I would also urge you to find some way to quarantine new fish to keep this from happening again. I've encountered this disease both times I have tried keeping angels, and both times it wiped out my stock. I know your mom is strict about the tank stuff, but talk to her and explain that a $10 10 gallon tank and a cheap sponge filter and heater could have saved all the money you had put into those angels. If she says no, you can always qt fish in a 5 gallon bucket.

 

[Alyxx]

Only problem is we have to carry it all the way down the stairs and back up. No WAY is my mom letting me do that! :/
Ugh... Is there a way to bleach clean WITHOUT replacing the filters and media?

Like someone said, run the bleach through the tank. You will be bleaching the filters too. But new media will be needed either way - if you take the media out to bleach the tank then put it back in you will be reintroducing the infection to the tank and undoing the whole process.

 

[jwh0818]

Like someone said, run the bleach through the tank. You will be bleaching the filters too. But new media will be needed either way - if you take the media out to bleach the tank then put it back in you will be reintroducing the infection to the tank and undoing the whole process.

Yeah this is the only way. You have no choice but to restart. Its a dredded task but your end results will be much better and set up a QT system even if its a 5g bucket

 

[AngelFishGirl]

Yeah this is the only way. You have no choice but to restart. Its a dredded task but your end results will be much better and set up a QT system even if its a 5g bucket

I do have 5 gallon buckets. I can use those.
But seriously.... I can't put down my angels.... I can't do it... I love them too much...

 

[AngelFishGirl]

I agree. You should put down the remaining angels because even if they appear healthy they are carriers, and will just keep the tank infected. I know it's hard but it's the only thing you can do. As for why the babies are ok, only time will tell. Are they in the same tank with the adults? Perhaps wait a few months after putting down the others to see if the babies make it, but to be honest they have now been exposed and will likely infect new angels even if they don't get sick. I think your best option is to put down all of the angels you have now, including the babies, move the other fish to a friend's house like you did with your angels, and then run bleach through it and start the cycle over. Run the bleach for a couple days, do a big water change, and add a big overdose of prime to get rid of the bleach. You can have your lfs test the water for chlorine to make sure it's all gone before starting the cycle over (or buy your own chlorine test kit, but it's not a test you really need to use a lot). Your friend may want to do the same thing since they housed the sick angels for you. I would also urge you to find some way to quarantine new fish to keep this from happening again. I've encountered this disease both times I have tried keeping angels, and both times it wiped out my stock. I know your mom is strict about the tank stuff, but talk to her and explain that a $10 10 gallon tank and a cheap sponge filter and heater could have saved all the money you had put into those angels. If she says no, you can always qt fish in a 5 gallon bucket.

I have a 10 gallon tank. I am just not allowed to use a filter or heater because it's too expensive -_-'
Not even allowed to do it if I pay her 10 bucks a month... She's so strict and so unreasonable. She hates my fish tank. With a passion.

 

[Alyxx]

I have a 10 gallon tank. I am just not allowed to use a filter or heater because it's too expensive -_-'
Not even allowed to do it if I pay her 10 bucks a month... She's so strict and so unreasonable. She hates my fish tank. With a passion.

Wow... The cost of running a filter and a heater is pretty much nothing. I've never seen any significant increase in my bill after setting up a new tank and I have 8 running right now. Lights are the real power suckers, and then only really if they are high powered lights. Do you have an air pump on the main tank? Because you could get a splitter for the air line and use it to run a sponge filter if the qt tank is close to the display tank.

My mom only allowed me a 10 gallon and a couple smaller tanks when I lived with her, and she thinks I'm nuts for having so many now.

As for euthanizing the angels, unless you want to just keep the ones you have it's your only choice. If they are carriers they will infect any new angels. Also I would advise you to not breed them, as their young would probably also either get infected and die or become carriers, and you wouldn't want to sell fish that would spread the disease. It's up to you, but the only two responsible choices I can see are to euthanize and disinfect the tank or to keep these fish until they die naturally but not add any stock until they die and you disinfect the tank, and to not sell or rehome any fry that come out of your tank.

 

[AngelFishGirl]

Wow... The cost of running a filter and a heater is pretty much nothing. I've never seen any significant increase in my bill after setting up a new tank and I have 8 running right now. Lights are the real power suckers, and then only really if they are high powered lights. Do you have an air pump on the main tank? Because you could get a splitter for the air line and use it to run a sponge filter if the qt tank is close to the display tank.

My mom only allowed me a 10 gallon and a couple smaller tanks when I lived with her, and she thinks I'm nuts for having so many now.

As for euthanizing the angels, unless you want to just keep the ones you have it's your only choice. If they are carriers they will infect any new angels. Also I would advise you to not breed them, as their young would probably also either get infected and die or become carriers, and you wouldn't want to sell fish that would spread the disease. It's up to you, but the only two responsible choices I can see are to euthanize and disinfect the tank or to keep these fish until they die naturally but not add any stock until they die and you disinfect the tank, and to not sell or rehome any fry that come out of your tank.

I want new angels... Don't get me wrong.. But there is just NO WAY I could ever kill my fish....
I don't know what I want to do. You can add stock as long as it's not an angelfish right? Maybe my friend will just take them for me.. She's got over 25 tanks. She would probably love to have them.

 

[Alyxx]

I want new angels... Don't get me wrong.. But there is just NO WAY I could ever kill my fish....
I don't know what I want to do. You can add stock as long as it's not an angelfish right? Maybe my friend will just take them for me.. She's got over 25 tanks. She would probably love to have them.

That would be doable, as long as she understands not to add angels with them and not to sell any of their fry. You should give her the babies you have as well. As long as they are kept separate from other angels they should be ok. I totally understand not wanting to kill them. I have had to euthanize several fish and its never easy. Especially when their quality of life is still ok (I had to euthanize several neons that were showing signs of neon tetra disease). As long as your friend can keep them separate she should be ok keeping them. Once again, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I've been through it twice and it is horrible. I nearly gave up on fish after it took my pair a few years back, and then once I had tank space for angels again it reared its head and killed off my angels once more. I think the angels I bought when I first started the tank brought it in, and it reinfected the new ones I bought after. It took months for them to start showing symptoms but they did. Lost a batch of 10 juvies from an aquabid breeder. I haven't bought Angels since but I will at some point in the future. I love them, but I'm waiting for a fresh tank and good stock.

 

[Kelly5978]

I KNOW what a great caretaker you are, and how knowledgeable you are about angels....so, I'm so sorry. Just so I understand, you added new sand, and a new pair. Then, the angels you've had forever had trouble swimming, seemed to "decay" (shark eating fins), then they died? Did they stop eating? I sure wont question your diagnosis, but I'm glad you're not euthanizing the pair. I noticed everyone jumped on the new pair, but no one mentioned the new sand. I'm a newbie, and probably way off base, but id hate to see you (of all people) stop breeding and caring for angels! Especially since the babies have so far not been affected. Call me devils advocate, but...couldn't it be that the babies weren't as used to the perfect water you keep them in (neither would be the new pair), and therefore, they were not affected by something in the sand? I had a gorgeous angel die from osmotic shock...for the exact opposite reason...he was used to great water, and mine just wasnt. Honestly, I'm just trying to find an easier way for you! I know the detestation of watching a beautiful angel struggle, and not know how to help! Wishing you tons of good luck and please let me know how this turns out!

 

[Kelly5978]

Oh....and were the angels eating the new plants?

 

[Kelly5978]

Does your friend have other angels? I'm curious to know if they were affected. I'm just devastated for you

 

[AngelFishGirl]

Thank you for your response
The angels weren't eating the plants. And I don't believe it's the sand because it was put in a week and a half ago and I've had 2 water changes since. And there's been no fatalities until the angel scare. Really sucks. :/
And yes my friend has angels but none were affected. Knowing they were dying off she put all of my angels in a 39 gallon hex that was empty. She's got over 25 fish tanks running. 1 is salt, the others are all freshwater. So none were affected