Riddle me this Batman...

[rhprice3]

I had been attempting to cycle an aquarium since October 2015. On October 21st, somehow, the bottom of this aquarium cracked and all of the water leaked out. Not be discouraged, I purchased a new aquarium on Oct. 23rd and transferred all media, including filters, gravels and artificial plants into it.

I tested the new water and the levels were:
pH - 6.8-7.0
High range pH - 7.8
Ammonia - 0.0-0.25
Nitrite - 0.0
Nitrate - 0.0

I added 20 drops of pure ammonia and a couple of hours later the ammonia levels increased to 0.5-1.0 ppm.

I then added another 20 drops of pure ammonia.

11/24/15
I tested the water and the levels were:
pH - 6.6-6.8
High range pH - 7.8
Ammonia - 0.25
Nitrite - 0.0
Nitrate - 0.0

11/25/15
I added 4 tetras.
I tested the water and the levels were:
pH - 6.4
High range pH - 7.8
Ammonia - 0.25
Nitrite - 0.0
Nitrate - 0.0

11/29/15
Tested for ammonia only and it had increased to 4.0 ppm.

11/30/15
I tested the water and the levels were:
pH - 6.0
High range pH - 7.4
Ammonia - 4.0
Nitrite - 0.0
Nitrate - 0.0

Added a single dose of Proper pH (to raise pH) and Stress Zyme (to reduce ammonia?).

12/01/15
Made a 30% water change

12/02/15
I tested the water and the levels were:
pH - 6.0-6.4
High range pH - 7.8
Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 0.0
Nitrate - 0.0

Water was noticeable cloudy

12/07/15
I tested the water and the levels were:
pH - 6.4
High range pH - 7.8
Ammonia - 2.0-4.0
Nitrite - 0.0
Nitrate - 0.0

After testing made a 25% water change

12/11/15
Noticed that water was starting to smell bad

Tested ammonia only and level was 2.0-4.0 ppm

Made a 50% water change

After water change, levels were:
pH - 6.0
High range pH - 7.8
Ammonia - 2.0
Nitrite - 0.0
Nitrate - 0.0

I also have a filter (Penguin 150 - made by Marineland) that has a bio-wheel and hold two charcoal filters. I replaced one of the charcoal filters and left the other in place in an attempt to knock down the smell.

12/17/15
I tested the water and the levels were:
pH - 6.0
High range pH - 7.4
Ammonia - 4.0 plus
Nitrite - 0.0
Nitrate - 0.0

Added a dose of Stress Zyme.

Without going into the gory details, my ammonia levels are still off the charts (the API Ammonia Test Kit color is so green it almost looks blue). I add Prime during water changes (about 10%-20% every other week). I added Ammo Chips 3 days ago (put them in a bio bag and placed them in the filter), and have been adding Seed every couple of days.

Just for the hell of it, I tested today pure ammonia with the same kit and the test color is 0.25!

4 Tetras are still alive but I'm scared to add fish with such ridicules ammonia levels (nitrates and nitrates remain at 0). pH is hovering around 7.0.

I've checked at my LFS and they seem to be as confused as I am. They feel it's already cycled but I don't wanna risk it.

Has anyone experienced anything like this before?
I guess my questions is...Am I still on the right track? Should I be doing something differently?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Fresh2o]

This is baffling. I'm assuming the testing for ammonia was performed correctly. Odd how no nitrates appeared during the course of it. Does the LFS also use API kits? You could have them test the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate to confirm your findings.
Was the ammonia initially used free of detergents, perfumes, surfactants, etc? Just wondering what could stifle a BB culture like that.


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[Johny]

Have you tested your tap water? I would do three test tubes, test them all for ammonia. One tube tank water, one tube tap water and one distilled water.

If you are consistently getting high ammonia it may be coming from your water source. You could also see if your city has a local water report.

I would highly suggest the side by side test, especially with the distilled water. That will give you a control group. If your distilled water shows ammonia your test is either bad, or you're some how contaminating the test. If it shows 0, you at least have confidence the test is correct, and you can then compare the tank water to the tap water.

Hope this helps. Sounds frustrating.

Also, what size is the tank?

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[rhprice3]

The ammonia used is free of all that stuff. I'm not sure what test kit the LFS uses, but I think I'll take a water sample there for them to test.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[rhprice3]

Have you tested your tap water? I would do three test tubes, test them all for ammonia. One tube tank water, one tube tap water and one distilled water.

If you are consistently getting high ammonia it may be coming from your water source. You could also see if your city has a local water report.

I would highly suggest the side by side test, especially with the distilled water. That will give you a control group. If your distilled water shows ammonia your test is either bad, or you're some how contaminating the test. If it shows 0, you at least have confidence the test is correct, and you can then compare the tank water to the tap water.

Hope this helps. Sounds frustrating.

Also, what size is the tank?

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The city's local water report only reports a reading for Nitrate/Nitrite (as Nitrogen). I don't see anything for ammonia. The levels for Nitrate/Nitrite are 0.1-0.36 ppm.

I'll try the side-by-side test.

Tanks is 20 gallons.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Freakgecko91]

Ditch the pH adjuster. Stable pH is much better than an "appropriate level" as most of the fish we purchase are tank raised and not reliant on wild pH values. pH swings can actually kill fish much more easily than "off" levels.

Are you changing out any filter media?

Test your tap after allowing it to degas overnight (Leave it out overnight before testing)

What are you using to test the water?

From everything written above, your tank is not cycled, and the cloudiness would point to a bacterial bloom, which is a good sign that your tank is still trying to cycle

 

[rhprice3]

Ditch the pH adjuster. Stable pH is much better than an "appropriate level" as most of the fish we purchase are tank raised and not reliant on wild pH values. pH swings can actually kill fish much more easily than "off" levels.

Are you changing out any filter media?

Test your tap after allowing it to degas overnight (Leave it out overnight before testing)

What are you using to test the water?

From everything written above, your tank is not cycled, and the cloudiness would point to a bacterial bloom, which is a good sign that your tank is still trying to cycle

The guy at the LFS said I needed to bring up my pH to encourage bacteria growth so that's why I'm trying to keep it up. Local tap water pH is around 5.5.

Again, LFS guy said to leave filter media alone, so I haven't changed any of that in a while.

I have two API test kits, one for just ammonia and one for everything (including ammonia). They are liquid test kits not strips.

My tank is not cloudy, it's crystal clear.

I will put some tap water in a clean jar today and test it tomorrow.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[jwh0818]

Stable ph is what you want. Adding oh buffers can cause the tank to crash so fast.

 

[Johny]

Just curious how the test results came out? Did you solve the riddle?

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[gzeiger]

The numbers posted are essentially impossible under normal conditions. An unflushed toilet bowl will cycle over the time scale you've described. It's also impossible for the ammonia to drop as much as reported with no nitrite or nitrate present. The possibilities are:
- Test results are bad. This could be because of old or defective reagents, error in reading the results, or chemical interferences in your water. I've never heard of a drinking water supply with chemical interferences, but it's not impossible.
- You're doing something crazy, like not running the filter or chilling the tank to the point where biological activity is suspended.
- Your ammonia contained something not on the label. Can you give us more information, like the brand or maybe a picture of the label?

How big is the tank? What kind of tetras are they?

My opinion is that if the fish are still alive the ammonia test results cannot be correct.

Not sure what you want this tank to look like, but it is a common practice among us native fish keepers to add natural soil (literally a shovelful from your yard) and the tank is instantly cycled because the soil already contains a full complement of the necessary bacteria processing leaf litter, worm poop and whatever else. This doesn't work out well if you're running oversized powerheads or have digging fish or really if you don't want plants. It is a way to jump start a cycle though by adding a teaspoon or so to a hang-on-back filter and vacuuming it out over the next few water changes.

 

[Andy Sager]

I have to agree with the issue that the ammonia level came down but there was no sign of nitrites or nitrates. You shouldn't have one without the other. So now the question is: Was the original tank cycled ( and you saw the nitrite level go up and down) before the crack and leak?

 

[Johny]

I did a fish in cycle and it took a solid month before I was getting consistent test results, but my tank is fairly heaving planted. I think the op said fake plants in his set up.

The inconsistency was why I suggested doing a side by side test with tank water, tap water and distilled water so we know if the test is accurate and if his water source is adding to the problem.

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[Andy Sager]

I did a fish in cycle and it took a solid month before I was getting consistent test results, but my tank is fairly heaving planted. I think the op said fake plants in his set up.

The inconsistency was why I suggested doing a side by side test with tank water, tap water and distilled water so we know if the test is accurate and if his water source is adding to the problem.

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Absolutely. Test accuracy is the key here for sure however, I don't believe there would be anything in the tap water that would stop the conversion of the ammonia to nitrates and then nitrates sans the PH. THAT will halt the biological action and creation of nitrifying bacteria but the OP stated that their water was higher than 7.0 PH in the tank while 5.5 from the tap. So at 5.5, the ammonia in the tap would be ammonium and not an issue as much for the fish but for the bacteria. So the next question to the OP is : Are you SURE the PH is staying above 7.0?

On a side note, an average fish in cycle should take about 4-6 weeks depending on how much bioload is put into the tank. But there should be a consistent reading that whole time. Consistent meaning watching the ammonia and nitrite levels rise and fall while the nitrate level rises. There shouldn't be a rise and drop and rise again in a short amount of time.

 

[gzeiger]

I suspect that you would get consistent readings running blanks on the tap water side by side with the tank, even if the test is bad. The reagent or color comparator can be defective in a way that makes it read high or low, but there's no way to make it random.

Nitrification is not as pH sensitive as many hobbyists would have you believe. You can get down a bit below 6 before there's any real effect, and even then it doesn't totally halt. I supervise a sewage treatment plant - not just making stuff up here.

 

[Johny]

The first week of the cycled we did we were using an older test kit. It wasnt until i got a really odd ready one day that i decided to test tap and distilled water. Doing that helped me realize my test kit was bad. For him to be sure any of his readings are accurate he needs to test the kit itself.

I agree that he needs to figure the pH out as well.

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[Andy Sager]

I suspect that you would get consistent readings running blanks on the tap water side by side with the tank, even if the test is bad. The reagent or color comparator can be defective in a way that makes it read high or low, but there's no way to make it random.

Nitrification is not as pH sensitive as many hobbyists would have you believe. You can get down a bit below 6 before there's any real effect, and even then it doesn't totally halt. I supervise a sewage treatment plant - not just making stuff up here.

Not to argue but the OP stated that their tap water was 5.5 so that is a bit below 6.0 and to my understanding, would effect nitrification.

But after reading the opening post too quickly, I failed to notice that the high range PH and regular PH test were different values. That shouldn't be. You use the high range PH when the low range doesn't go high enough so something is definitely wrong with a reagent on one of them is a logical conclusion. The value on both tests should be the same. Now the question is, which one?

 

[jessipanda]

Not to argue but the OP stated that their tap water was 5.5 so that is a bit below 6.0 and to my understanding, would effect nitrification.

But after reading the opening post too quickly, I failed to notice that the high range PH and regular PH test were different values. That shouldn't be. You use the high range PH when the low range doesn't go high enough so something is definitely wrong with a reagent on one of them is a logical conclusion. The value on both tests should be the same. Now the question is, which one?

The high range pH test only reads 7.6 & up. If it is lower than 7.6, than it will still read as 7.6. Vise versa with the low pH test.
If his low pH test is reading 5.5 & high is reading 7.6, then his actual pH is 5.5 and there's no reason to use the high pH test.

 

[Andy Sager]

The high range pH test only reads 7.6 & up. If it is lower than 7.6, than it will still read as 7.6. Vise versa with the low pH test.
If his low pH test is reading 5.5 & high is reading 7.6, then his actual pH is 5.5 and there's no reason to use the high pH test.

On the API color chart, which I have in front of me, there is a value between 7.4 and 7.8 that applies to both tests. So yes, a value lower than 7.4 will read 7.4 on the high range kit but will read on the low range as the right value. Same in reverse.
But the OP states that on at least one occasion, there was a low range of 7.0 and a high range of 7.8. THAT should not happen.

 

[Johny]

I think we need op to chime back in and clarify.

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[Autumnsky]

What temp are you running the tank at?