'Safe' Ammonia and Nitrite levels??

[OwduaNM]

So, I have had 4 zebra danios in my 36g tank for 5 days. Today the ammonia level was .5 ppm and Nitries were 2.0 ppm. Nitrates are 5.0 ppm.

I did a 15% water change. I will test again and do another water change tomorrow.

Are either of those levels in the extreme danger zone? Do I need to do a larger water change?

 

[fishyfriends3]

0 ammonia and 0 nitrites is safe. .5 ammonia means 50% water change should bring ammonia to 0.25 follow that with another 50% water change should bring it to zero. But I would leave it 24 hours between the water changes.

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[OwduaNM]

Is it typical for this to happen after adding fish or did I possibly mess up my fish less cycle?

 

[fishyfriends3]

I think you messed up your fish less cycle, because when cycled yoh should have zero ammonia and nitrites and a high level for nitrates. You reduce the high nitrate level with regular water changes.

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[OwduaNM]

Will there be a mini cycle after adding more fish once a tank is cycled?

 

[fishyfriends3]

Once a tank is cycled, there's enough bb to add fish to the tank. The problem is you haven't got a cycled tank and have added fish. How long did you fishless cycle for ?

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[OwduaNM]

Over 2 months. Probably almost 10 weeks. The problem is I could not find ammonia to seed the tank anywhere. So I just seeded the tank with fish food. Clearly I wasn't seeding it enough.

Once I saw nitrates at a higher level than ammonia or nitrites I thought I was good.

 

[fishyfriends3]

Okay there's some cycling experts on here you could try sending them a message.

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[threnjen]

Tank not cycled. You're now cycling fish-in. check out this sticky: I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice
Your 2.0 nitrites are pretty dangerous. You need to do 50% water changes every few hours until you get that under .5. You'll need to check your levels every day now and do frequent water changes.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/i-just-learned-about-cycling-but-i-already-have-fish-what-now/

 

[OwduaNM]

Tank not cycled. You're now cycling fish-in. check out this sticky: I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice
Your 2.0 nitrites are pretty dangerous. You need to do 50% water changes every few hours until you get that under .5. You'll need to check your levels every day now and do frequent water changes.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/i-just-learned-about-cycling-but-i-already-have-fish-what-now/

I will do daily water tests and daily water changes, but like I mentioned before my nitrates where high and ammonia and nitrites were very low before I added any fish.

 

[threnjen]

Ammonia and nitrites low don't represent a cycle. A fishless cycle is only complete when some amount of ammonia x is converted entirely to nitrates in 24 hours. Any presence of ammonia or nitrites of any type means the tank is not cycled.

 

[OwduaNM]

My understanding is that even when a tank is cycled, adding fish can cause a mini cycle as the beneficial bacteria colonies grow to adjust to the new levels of nutrients in the water.

Following the cycling guides on here would likely avoid that problem because the ammonia dosing over long periods of time builds up those colonies very substantially, and usually can handle the addition of fish.

In my case, I did not have ammonia to dose with, and thus my 'dosing' was not as substantial as it could have been and the BB colonies are not large enough, but they are there. This is the definition of mini cycle as far as I understand.

I have tracked my ammonia, nitrite and nitrates over the last 2 months and my ammonia had peaked and then dropped to near 0 before I added fish.

 

[threnjen]

OK. I don't think we're arguing about anything here.

A tank which is fully fishless cycled can handle the full load of a tank stocking.
I realize you didn't have ammonia to cycle your tank. I'm curious though if you asked us what you could do We could have advised you (raw shrimp)

A mini cycle is more like something that happens because you killed a tiny part of the bio filter somehow (vigorous vacuuming, rinsed piece of sponge in tap water, etc) and they usually resolve in 2-3 days. Your fairly high ammonia and nitrite readings may indicate a more basic cycle still occurring. Yes, you DO have some bio capacity, I agree. But you might have a ways more to build.

Either way - you clearly understand how to run your tests, and you'll just need to be vigilant and treat it as a fish-in unless/until it all resolves. Maybe you will get lucky and it WILL resolve in just a few days in which case great!

 

[OwduaNM]

OK. I don't think we're arguing about anything here.

A tank which is fully fishless cycled can handle the full load of a tank stocking.
I realize you didn't have ammonia to cycle your tank. I'm curious though if you asked us what you could do We could have advised you (raw shrimp)

A mini cycle is more like something that happens because you killed a tiny part of the bio filter somehow (vigorous vacuuming, rinsed piece of sponge in tap water, etc) and they usually resolve in 2-3 days. Your fairly high ammonia and nitrite readings may indicate a more basic cycle still occurring. Yes, you DO have some bio capacity, I agree. But you might have a ways more to build.

Either way - you clearly understand how to run your tests, and you'll just need to be vigilant and treat it as a fish-in unless/until it all resolves. Maybe you will get lucky and it WILL resolve in just a few days in which case great!

You are right, I should have asked about ammonia dosing. I did not realize there were other ways! I think you are right about the cycling continuing. It's quite possible my cycle was moving very slowly and I just mistook it for be complete and now with the additional biolaod the cycle is completing. I will likely be back asking for more help!

 

[Sk3lly]

My understanding is that even when a tank is cycled, adding fish can cause a mini cycle as the beneficial bacteria colonies grow to adjust to the new levels of nutrients in the water.

Following the cycling guides on here would likely avoid that problem because the ammonia dosing over long periods of time builds up those colonies very substantially, and usually can handle the addition of fish.

In my case, I did not have ammonia to dose with, and thus my 'dosing' was not as substantial as it could have been and the BB colonies are not large enough, but they are there. This is the definition of mini cycle as far as I understand.

I have tracked my ammonia, nitrite and nitrates over the last 2 months and my ammonia had peaked and then dropped to near 0 before I added fish.

Just remember who asked for help. People were just trying to help you out. If you fully understand the cycling process then you should also know that ammonia and nitrite are pretty toxic to fish. Also 15% water changes are about as useful for reducing your high levels as a chocolate tea pot!! 50% is much better

 

[Jmunroe]

You were only creating a small amount of ammonia in your tank with the fish food. Therefore your beneficial bacteria colony is not very big. You added fish which is creating more ammonia than your filter can process. Your filter needs time to catch up and increase the colony size to be able to handle the bioload. What size is your tank? What is your filter and what is the media your using? What is the tank stocking? When doing fish less cycle you try to keep the tank at 4ppm of ammonia, that way the colony will grow big enough to handle a tanks full stocking, and the unneeded beneficial bacteria harmlessly die off.

 

[OwduaNM]

Just remember who asked for help. People were just trying to help you out. If you fully understand the cycling process then you should also know that ammonia and nitrite are pretty toxic to fish. Also 15% water changes are about as useful for reducing your high levels as a chocolate tea pot!! 50% is much better

I will do 50% water changes until the BB colonies catch up to the biolaod of the tank.

I am nervous about changing too much water at one time (probably for no good reason) and will just have to get past those nerves and keep up the large water changes until everything is in the clear.

 

[OwduaNM]

You were only creating a small amount of ammonia in your tank with the fish food. Therefore your beneficial bacteria colony is not very big. You added fish which is creating more ammonia than your filter can process. Your filter needs time to catch up and increase the colony size to be able to handle the bioload. What size is your tank? What is your filter and what is the media your using? What is the tank stocking? When doing fish less cycle you try to keep the tank at 4ppm of ammonia, that way the colony will grow big enough to handle a tanks full stocking, and the unneeded beneficial bacteria harmlessly die off.

I agree that I did not produce enough ammonia during the cycling to grow the BB colonies to an appropriate size. I should have asked for tips on how to dose more effectively than just using fish flakes.

My tank is 36g with 2 Quietflow 30 (each rated for 45g) filters. Currently I have only 4 longfin zebra danios. In the back of my mind I had a concern about the quality of my cycle so I decided to only add a couple fish and watch the water parameters before I invested in more fish. I will not be adding anymore until the BB have caught up.

Although I have an understanding of how a tank cycling works, there are still holes in my understanding which I am trying to fill (thus the point of this post).

 

[Jmunroe]

Those danios shouldn't produce much ammonia. Did you get all the rotten fish food out with good gravel vac'ing? A good size pinch of food daily should have been enough to cycle the tank.

 

[OwduaNM]

Those danios shouldn't produce much ammonia. Did you get all the rotten fish food out with good gravel vac'ing? A good size pinch of food daily should have been enough to cycle the tank.

I was just thinking that was the problem. I left all of the decaying fish food at the bottom of the tank and didn't clean it out before adding the Danios. I cleansed up a good portion of the food with the water change yesterday. I will be more thorough today.

I have also reduced the amount that I am feeding them since I suspect I was feeding too much.