Seeded filter story

[TomK2]

I just set up a 10 gal planted tank. I have a aquaclear 20 (mini) on it. My original plan was to take bio-media from an established canister filter and put it in the aquaclear 20. But the little filter is, well, little. The ceramic noodles it came with are much smaller than the pourous biomedia in my canister filters. So instead I use the little ceraminc noodles that came witht the aquaclear, and seeded the filter with floss from the canister that has been in the canister at least a month. I put three full size zebra danios in the 10 gal tank, and expected a near perfect instant cycle. I chose three danios knowing that that is too much for an uncycled, unseeded tank, but not overbearing for evaluating the potency of the seeded filter process.

After three days, the ammonia level is zero. The nitrite is 0.25, the pH 7.4, nitrate undetected.

So, the seed was completely successful in preventing any ammonia spike, since I never detected any with a lower limit of 0.25ppm, and ammonia is being converted into nitrite. But the seed was not potent enough to prevent a little nitrite. Of course I will monitor it, water change and/or remove the danios to protect them if ncessarry. I just found it interesting that the seed could not also prevent the nitrite. If I ever do this agian I will crush up or break the larger canister biomedia so it fits in the aquaclear mini, and see if that does better than a floss seed.

Anyone else find that a seeded filter has a harder time with nitrite than ammonia?

 

[severum mama]

Yes. I set up a 55 gallon at work and had similar, but quicker, results- great compared to a normal cycle, but you do still have to stay on top of water testing and changes for a few days. I always advise that it is not an instant, but rather very abbreviated, cycle when I recommend this method to others.

I set the new tank up with an Emperor 400 and Aquaclear 50 (200 gph). I didn't have any Aquaclear media that was the right size, so I used one old filter cartridge and one old Biowheel from my 55 gallon, and the other cartridge and Biowheel from my 30 gallon tank. When I put the media in the new Emperor, I added a school of 8 flame tetras. I tested the water the next day and had 0 ammonia, .25 nitrite, and 0 nitrate. I did a 25% water change. I tested again on the third day and found that ammonia and nitrates were 0, and nitrates were between 10 and 20. It had only taken 3 days to cycle. I stocked slowly while adding the rest of the fish and tested the water regularly, and did not notice any other spikes.

 

[TomK2]

Ah, so you also had mild nitrite. I wonder. The nitrite bacteria are slower growing than the ammonia bacteria, and perhaps they are not as efficient, so they need a few days to catch up? Or, perhaps the fact that they can metabolize other nutrients (they are not obligate nitrite consumers), means that in a new tank they spend their energy eating other stuff that might come with a new setup, and after a few days they get down to metabolizing the nitrite? Even so, if the levels stay low and go away quickly, I will be very pleased indeed. Beleive it or not, I have set up new tanks from scratch on so many occasions, this is the first time I get to really observe a seeded start up. Gotta love this hobby, always something new to learn and experience.

 

[fishyrican]

Ditto here. I just completed cycling a 55 with seeded biofilter and had the same thing happen. Took about four days to cycle, with a very brief nitrite spike.

 

[id10t]

I used the seeded method and had an instant cycle. I think you just didn't have enough used media. A friend has 3 tanks so when I setup my 10 gal at fisrt he was able to give me enough seeded media to completely fill my filter setup as well as have a piece floating in the tank for a week or so.

 

[severum mama]

I used 2 old Biowheels and 2 old filter cartridges in an Emperor 400, therefore filling the new filter with the old media. I also set up an AC 200. I should have had enough media, or so I thought, yet it was still not an instant cycle. I'm just glad I thought to test my water. Anyway, it probably depends on the amount of filter media used, as well as tank size. Mine was 55 gallons.

 

[TomK2]

No doubt more biomedia could overcome the tiny nitrite spike, but there is only so much you can fit in an aquaclear mini. How interesting that you can seed with enough to prevent ammonia, but you need more seed to prevent nitrite elevation. I gues you just need more nitrobacter than nitrosomas when seeding. I bet its gone when I check tomorrow.

 

[hashbaz]

Is it possible that the bacteria that feed on nitrite starve to death before the other bacteria produce nitrite?

 

[TomK2]

hashbaz-
interesting! It took two days for the nitrite to reach 0.25 ppm. I would think trace amounts of nitrite were present within hours of adding the fish. But there would be some amount of time before the nitrite was available, or available in certain concentrations. Since the nitrobacter are not obligate nitrite metabolizers, you would think that they might be able to subsist a while without it. I would think that it is possible that even if their death does not occur, their activity could be impaired by that period. We know that they are slower growing (14 hr doubling time versus 7 hrs for nitrosomas). I can't think of any way to tell if its due to bacteria inactivity/death or just insufficient numbers transfered. Both situatons would present the same way, a transient insufficiency of nitrosomas activity.

A good point! Agreed this is all academic, but I still like to think about it.

 

[Jchillin]

Here's something else to consider (of course, this is pure speculation):

Have we ever considered that there may be an uneven/unequally distributed amount of each nitrifying bacteria? It's possible that the nitrobacter colony that was brought over was not as large as the nitrosomas and took awhile to catch up again?

(ie: given the surface area of the media, the population of bacteria could be distributed unevenly)

 

[TomK2]

Absolutely! Although I do think that they live side by side. I would think such an arrangment would be ideal, since the waste of one is the food of another, a side by side living arrangment would allow the most efficiet use of resources. If they are side by side, there would be less dilution, and in nature, less chance the chemicals could be washed away before use. But it would not have to be that way, you could have all the nitrosomas on the bottom of the floss/biomedia, and all the nitrobacter on the top, or any other uneven distribution that would cause an insufficient colony of nitrobacter to be transferred.

So interesting that the amount of biomedia, used as a seed, to get an effective nitrosomas colony is less than the amount needed for an effective nitrobacter colony, whatever the reason. The nerd side of me loves things like this, the rest of me says, "Huh. guess i will just add more media next time."

 

[Jchillin]

Yes...co-habitating side by side but in disproportionate amounts on each surface. Not to worry about the "nerdy" thoughts...things like this always stoke my thinking cap. Not a bad idea for the next challenge...see if nitrifying bacteria are distributed in equal amounts across all media surfaces. 8O

 

[TomK2]

The ammonia levels have stayed zero, and the nitrite levels remained constant at 0.25 ppm for five days, with 20% water changes being done four of the five days. As of today, ammonia and nitrite are zero. I had expected the nitrite to resolve quicker than five days, but I am not disappointed. I will monitor it for a little bit, and also do a nitrate level in a week or so. I was surprised at the nitrite levels even though they were low, but I would call it a sucessful filter seeding.

 

[BlazerFRS]

I just recently started my six gallon with 'seed' from my old two gallon. The two gallon doesn't even have a filter, so I took a handful of gravel, tied it up in some cheese cloth, and let that sit in the water for about a day. I also recycled two of the decorative stones I had used in the 2 gallon.

This seems to have given me an almost instant cycle; registered trace nitrites the second day, and zero nitrites and about 10 ppm of nitrates today (day three).

Much easier than waiting for the cycle to begin from scratch!

I should also note the six galon has a bio-wheel; do these come pre-seeded with bacteria; or do they grow it over time?

 

[severum mama]

They grow it over time. There is nothing on the wheel when you first get it.

 

[BlazerFRS]

Probably should have figured that one out myself, they're not shipped wet, or even in a plastic bag... *DUH*

Thanks