Shrinking Tail on Zebra Danios

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If I were you I would test some bottled water for ammonia to see if you are really seeing 0.25 or 0. The colors are really close, and sometimes what looks like the 0.25 on the card is really your zero reading. Use a tune from one of the other tests and test some bottled water and tank water at the same time and compare. If they look the same, you don't have ammonia and what you have been seeing is your zero reading. As for the fin rot, Linda is correct in saying the best treatment is clean water. Fin rot isn't so much a disease as a symptom of poor water quality. However, if it turns out you don't have ammonia in the tank, perhaps look into a broad spectrum antibiotic. If the fin rot started when you were still cycling, or perhaps even before you bought the fish, it may have led to an infection in the fins that has continued to deteriorate the fins even after the fish were in clean water. Either way, keep up the water changes to ensure pristine water. Also, be sure you are shaking the crap out of the nitrate bottle number 2, if you aren't you probably are getting an inaccurate nitrate reading. As for the strips being fairly accurate, you are right in saying they can be pretty accurate, the main problem with them is they go bad if they get even slightly damp, or too hot, or someone looks at them the wrong way, lol. Stick with the liquid kits and prime! While it is true that prime can give a false reading of ammonia, it does neutralize it for 24-48 hours, which is long enough for the bacteria in your filter and tank to eat it up. If you do have ammonia in your tap water, this is a very good thing! Regular water conditioner won't do this, and the fish are exposed to the toxic ammonia until the bacteria eats it instead of the neutralized form.
Also, one more question - are you sure the fins are deteriorating and not just clamped? Fish will clamp their fins when they are stressed out, which is also related to water quality most of the time, but can also be an indicator of other disease or stressors.
 
when I got home from work yesterday, the Zebra had no tail fin left, instead he had like a round cotton ball tail... I went out to run my errands and picked up some API Melafix. When I got back, the Zebra was dead. I medicated the tank anyway at 8pm and when I went to bed, one of the White Clouds was dead with no visible cause.
 
Alyxx said:
If I were you I would test some bottled water for ammonia to see if you are really seeing 0.25 or 0. The colors are really close, and sometimes what looks like the 0.25 on the card is really your zero reading. Use a tune from one of the other tests and test some bottled water and tank water at the same time and compare. If they look the same, you don't have ammonia and what you have been seeing is your zero reading.
I've used liquid and test strips, both gave the same reading of 0.25ppm ammonia

As for the fin rot, Linda is correct in saying the best treatment is clean water. Fin rot isn't so much a disease as a symptom of poor water quality. However, if it turns out you don't have ammonia in the tank, perhaps look into a broad spectrum antibiotic. If the fin rot started when you were still cycling, or perhaps even before you bought the fish, it may have led to an infection in the fins that has continued to deteriorate the fins even after the fish were in clean water. Either way, keep up the water changes to ensure pristine water.
The water has always been clean, never more then 0.25ppm ammo, no nitrites and 5ppm nitrates. pH ranges from 7.8 to 8 and temp is set to 25C

Also, be sure you are shaking the crap out of the nitrate bottle number 2, if you aren't you probably are getting an inaccurate nitrate reading.
I've read through all the instructions and even made notes on the bottles with marker to make sure no mistakes are made, I shake that bottle good every time.

As for the strips being fairly accurate, you are right in saying they can be pretty accurate, the main problem with them is they go bad if they get even slightly damp, or too hot, or someone looks at them the wrong way, lol.
and lets not forget the other main problem, people don't read the instructions, I've watched them do it completely wrong at the LFS

Stick with the liquid kits and prime! While it is true that prime can give a false reading of ammonia, it does neutralize it for 24-48 hours, which is long enough for the bacteria in your filter and tank to eat it up. If you do have ammonia in your tap water, this is a very good thing! Regular water conditioner won't do this, and the fish are exposed to the toxic ammonia until the bacteria eats it instead of the neutralized form.
but with daily WC, I'd never be able to truly test what stage my bacteria is in however I had a problem while using Prime so the temporary switch isn't the problem. I'm using LFS brand conditioner to better understand whats really happening in my tank right now. My tank has been running for 3weeks and 2days and it's seeded with filter media, although not fully cycled, something should be happening by now. I'm confused because in an uncycled tank ammo will rise and in a cycled tank, nitrates will rise but neither of these numbers differ from my tap water unless the tank did cycle and the small bio-load doesn't feed the bacteria enough and thus the little bit of nitrates produced is lost through gas exchange from the bubbles. My filter and air pump are always on, I heard the bacteria like oxygen so I wanted to make sure there was plenty

Also, one more question - are you sure the fins are deteriorating and not just clamped? Fish will clamp their fins when they are stressed out, which is also related to water quality most of the time, but can also be an indicator of other disease or stressors.
Please refer to my poor drawing in the OP, this drawing depicts what is happening to my fish, the deterioration happened after the third picture in my drawing and may be a seperate issue, I don't know
Click to expand...

my responses are in red
 
LyndaB said:
I suggest you read this article on columnaris: Columnaris - Flexibacter columnaris
Click to expand...

Symptoms/Response
-White spots on mouth, edges of scales, and fins
possibly some white on back edge of tail fin
-Cottony growth that eats away at the mouth
growth was on tail after fin disappeared, kinda like a bunny tail, maybe it's Easter disease lol
-Fins disintegrate beginning at the edges
the tail fin
-'Saddleback' lesion near the dorsal fin
nope
-Fungus often invades the affected skin
umm, and food often invades an open mouth?
-Rapid gilling in cases where gills are infected
possibly but with no other Zebra to compare, I'm not sure


keep in mind, everything starts with the drawing in my OP, does this mean I should treat for columnaris?

However the White Cloud that died looked like the second fish in my drawing with no other symptoms, except maybe some white on tail but I don't know
 
When you look at that list of symptoms, don't feel that you don't have columnaris just because you can't necessarily check off every item on the list.

When I went through this, I had two fish that showed fin rot (at the tail) and cottony fungus literally overnight. I culled those two fish, did a 50% water change, dosed the tank at 1/2 dose salt and I didn't lose any more fish.

My research had shown that columnaris is highly contagious and can wipe out an entire tank in a day. I culled the two fish for the good of the tank. It worked for me, but YMMV.
 
I just remembered that I had a pic on my phone of the White Cloud when it was new so there is a tiny bit of white on the back edge of the tail fin. Thats the only symptom (aside for possible tail clamping) which alone isn't definitive to any one disease/infection. If it is columnaris, maybe the first fish I bought had it and it spread which would be why the guppies died at different times, the infected being the yellow guppy that died in under 12hours both times.

For those not familiar with the background, I bought 5 different guppies, all dead in 24hrs, returned them for 5 more identical guppies, and again, all dead in 24hrs except for 1, both times the yellow guppy being dead when I got up to go to work. Then I bought 4 more guppies at a different LFS to keep the 1 survivor company but he died within an hour of the new guppies being added (he was in rough shape). The new LFS guppies lasted a bit longer then the others but died with no known cause.
I gave up on guppies and got 3 Zebra Danios from the new LFS and I'm not quite sure but two of them died about a week later and the third dieing lastnight at exactly 2weeks. the two dead Zebras were replaced with 3 White Cloud from the new LFS 8 days ago and one died last night with no known cause

so back to the current discussion, I could have gotten bad fish at Big Al's when I got the first 10 guppies which infected my aquarium and killed everything since. maybe that's why the fish from Petsmart lasted longer, they were healthy and fought off the infection longer.
The pieces of the puzzle are finally coming together... now to resolve the issue, I'll go buy new meds tonight and do a 50% WC
but what medication should I get?
 
another question, the article says under treatment "Discontinue carbon filtration during treatment" however my filter cartridge is one piece with carbon in the middle. If I remove it won't the bacteria die? I could transfer it to a friends tank to keep the bacteria in it alive but the filter would probably contain the disease possibly infecting the other aquarium. Do I just throw it out and buy a new one after medicating is complete? My filter does have a bio thing after the filter media to hold bacteria so I wouldn't lose it all but it would probably set my cycle back a bit.
 
Tear open the cartridge and remove the carbon. This is why many fishkeepers use batting material and other bio media that doesn't contain carbon.
 
isn't carbon good for removing unwanted substances though? should I put some new carbon in after medicating is completed? I'm thinking slice the top open so the media would retain its center pocket
 
It removes medicines, smells and stuff that tints the water, like tannins. It isn't all that beneficial unless you need to remove meds or you don't like tannins. Well established tanks shouldn't have much of a smell. However, you should probably buy some new carbon to remove the medicine when you are done treating because activated carbon will only pull things from the water for a few weeks to a month, so if the filter has been in the tank for a while, that carbon is probably useless by now. If the filter insert is more than a month old, I wouldn't even bother removing it in the first place. Old carbon won't effect the meds, it just becomes inert.

Sorry, I misread the post thinking you were putting the old carbon back in after medicating. Yes, put some new in after. You can either slice open the top the old out and put new in the pocket later, or just put some new into some old pantyhose or one of the filter media bags you can get at the pet store.
 
Lower the temperature in the tank and treat with a gram negative antibiotic. The low temperature slows down the growth rate of the bacteria.
 
so my research shows I can use [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Avant Garde]Pimafix on my remaining fish as it's not a serious case... to bad I bought Melafix lastnight thinking it was fin rot... I guess I'll own both now unless there's a better product to use but I'm only at work for another hour then I likely wont be online again until tomorrow morning but I might check this site again from my phone before buying something which will be in about 4hours...

Basically, unless I'm told otherwise in the next hour or maybe 4hrs, I'll be buying [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Avant Garde]Pimafix[/FONT]
 
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Like melafix, pimafix is just an herbal remedy. It has mild antibiotic properties but shouldn't be relied on to treat a fairly strong bacterial infection like columnaris, especially if the infection has established itself in the tank. It is ok to use for early symptoms, but it isn't really strong enough to treat an established infection. I would go with a good antibiotic. I think metro treats gram negative infections, and I think one of the marycin meds does too, but I can't remember if it is one or two. I would go ahead and add a little melafix in the meantime as well, also after the treatment with the meds. It does seem to help damaged fins heal.
 
I used the Pimafix and removed the carbon from inside my filter.
The sick fish died so it's mostly in the water now however one of my remaining two fish is missing half his tail all of a sudden so maybe I have a new sick fish.

you said "add a little melafix in the meantime as well"
does this mean I should use both medications together?
if I use both tonight, should I go buy a better medication tomorrow? (I'm going to the store anyway as I was unable to go today and borrowed the pimafix)
 
I wouldn't mix the antibiotics and the herbal treatments, but using melafix and pimafix together is ok. Once again, I would highly recommend getting a strong antibiotic to get the tank healthy again. Pimafix and melafix help fish heal but they won't wipe out a stable colony of columnar is bacteria in the tank. Use the pimafix and melafix after a round of antibiotics to help the fish's fins recover, though.
 
I've run a 5 day course of Maroxy and Maracyn and my fish seem much better, the one is fine (caught it just in time) and the other one lost about half the length of his tail fin but is no longer being lazy or hiding and seems happy... now to do a 5 day treatment of Melafix and Pimafix and hopefully all will be well
 
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