Sickly firemouth

[Caliban07]

I purchased 4 firemouth cichlids in the hope that 2 would pair and I could return the others.

I currently have a 47 gallon jewel rio. I keep the temp at 26-27 degrees and the only filtration I have is the internal 600L per hour. I know this falls short of the minimum which is why I purchased the eihm 2217 but really didn't like this design and it didn't fit inside the cabinet. I sold it and have plans to get a fluval instead.

One of my firemouths has never looked like the others. It looks very sick all the time and has fin rot. It's gills are also quite pink. This seems strange to me as all parameters are 0/0/5 and I change 50% of the water twice a week.

The fish acts just like the others in terms of swimming, eating, and doesn't flash or show any symptoms. I did notice some fungus growth on its mouth and head but put this down to it being very skittish and ramming in to objects.

All fish were acclimated via the drip method over the course of an hour. The pink in the gills is still the same colour and the fin rot started appearing on the other fish. This suggests to me that water quality isn't up to scratch but a change 100% of the water a week! And all parameters are fine. They are fed on new life spectrum cichlid pellets once a day, twice at weekends.

Another thing I noticed in the tank is that there seems to be an oily film on top. Again I researched and this is saying water quality isn't up to scratch. Some of the pellets get caught in the filter and I can miss them. I can also see oil coming from the pellets as they sink. I think the oil is building up because I have insufficient filter flow. I'm not sure this is anything to do with the way the fish looks though as the others look normal.

Something is going on though.

Oh I bought some fake plants that were actually made for a terranium, I bought them because they hang down and provide cover for the fish.

I am also struggling with algae do to the positioning of the tank opposite a window although the blinds are closed.

The substrate is a fine gravel almost like sand.

Here is a picture of the "sick" fish


And here are the others


I will get a better picture of the sick one to upload and also get ph reading.

 

[Delapool]

Hi, did you have any luck here? Was the ph reading ok?

 

[Caliban07]

Hi, did you have any luck here? Was the ph reading ok?

Yes everything is normal. The fish is acting normal too. I just don't get this one. Visually it looks really ill but it acts normal. :/

 

[Delapool]

Good news, hope it goes a ok - shame fish can't be trained to press options on a medical chart or something.

 

[Caliban07]

Good news, hope it goes a ok - shame fish can't be trained to press options on a medical chart or something.

Yes! If only you could identify bacteria through an optical microscope and know exactly what you were treating for.

 

[Caliban07]

Here is another picture of the infected fish. I think it's time to QT. I'm certain the only reason the other fish are ok is because of tank maintenance. This fish has been like this since day one.

 

[Delapool]

Yes, fully agree - water changes can make a difference just by them selves. Fingers crossed. Nice fish !

 

[Caliban07]

Yes, fully agree - water changes can make a difference just by them selves. Fingers crossed. Nice fish !

Compare it to the other ones though it isn't this nice! Lol. I've never give up on a fish though. This one will make it through.

 

[Delapool]

Hopefully picks up.

The size looks good although hard to tell. I was told that in general a larger fish species is easier to keep than a smaller fish species and starting to wonder if true.

 

[Hobgob]

Honestly I would stop those 50%changes and break it down throughout the week. When I first started discus I had the same issue and i was sitting here thinking how are they dying I change the water like crazy. I started doing pwc every other day and haven't lost one since. The reason why it could be causing the rot is because the ph might not be exactly the same as when you add your tap water in causing it to quickly has out with prime And stressing your fish. This is why people prepare there water in buckets ahead of time to age it. Also maybe your nitrates are just building up to fast by the time you do a 50..

Also I had two discus that had fungus on them. I was told by a few people to qt and treat with erythromycin or tetracyclin if one didn't work it was the other. Well I started doing 40%changes everyday and added salt at 1tbls per 10g and they recovered fine! Just goes to show how much clean water does for fish.

 

[Caliban07]

Honestly I would stop those 50%changes and break it down throughout the week. When I first started discus I had the same issue and i was sitting here thinking how are they dying I change the water like crazy. I started doing pwc every other day and haven't lost one since. The reason why it could be causing the rot is because the ph might not be exactly the same as when you add your tap water in causing it to quickly has out with prime And stressing your fish. This is why people prepare there water in buckets ahead of time to age it. Also maybe your nitrates are just building up to fast by the time you do a 50..

Also I had two discus that had fungus on them. I was told by a few people to qt and treat with erythromycin or tetracyclin if one didn't work it was the other. Well I started doing 40%changes everyday and added salt at 1tbls per 10g and they recovered fine! Just goes to show how much clean water does for fish.

I can understand what you mean about the ph. What I need to do is test water direct from the tap. Ph is always 7.6 in all 3 tanks. My nitrates don't have time to build up much at all because I change 100% if the water a week broken down in to 2 changes of 50%. I don't use prime just a dechlorinator. This fish has always been like this and the others are ok. Let me check my tap ph.

 

[Caliban07]

I can understand what you mean about the ph. What I need to do is test water direct from the tap. Ph is always 7.6 in all 3 tanks. My nitrates don't have time to build up much at all because I change 100% if the water a week broken down in to 2 changes of 50%. I don't use prime just a dechlorinator. This fish has always been like this and the others are ok. Let me check my tap ph.

Ph is 7.6 from tap same as the tank.

 

[Brookster123]

It sounds like the infected fish was just sick when you got him, maybe qt with salt??

 

[Caliban07]

It sounds like the infected fish was just sick when you got him, maybe qt with salt??

Yeh I don't think he is getting any better. I'm still a bit worried about that film that was forming on top. I aimed the output connector more towards the surface lately and the film has disappeared. This isn't to say though that the cause of this film isn't still in the tank.

Makes me worry about some of the rocks, pebbles and fake plants I have in my tank. I wonder if they are letting a chemical off or something. The other fish are starting to suffer from fin rot slightly but that could just be the bacteria spreading. Either a QT is in order or a dose of the whole tank starting with half dose of a bacterial med.

I'm worried that I may have used the same net from the tank which did have columnaris in this same tank although it does have it's own separate net now I may have used it once or twice in the past. However I am 99.9% sure that this fish was like this from the morning after I put them in and I didn't inspect them closely before I put them in. I don't think it could change and look so sickly over night without the others looking the same. I think the LFS might have snook it in to get rid if it.

 

[Brookster123]

Yeh I don't think he is getting any better. I'm still a bit worried about that film that was forming on top. I aimed the output connector more towards the surface lately and the film has disappeared. This isn't to say though that the cause of this film isn't still in the tank. Makes me worry about some of the rocks, pebbles and fake plants I have in my tank. I wonder if they are letting a chemical off or something. The other fish are starting to suffer from fin rot slightly but that could just be the bacteria spreading. Either a QT is in order or a dose of the whole tank starting with half dose of a bacterial med. I'm worried that I may have used the same net from the tank which did have columnaris in this same tank although it does have it's own separate net now I may have used it once or twice in the past. However I am 99.9% sure that this fish was like this from the morning after I put them in and I didn't inspect them closely before I put them in. I don't think it could change and look so sickly over night without the others looking the same. I think the LFS might have snook it in to get rid if it.

sometimes there's not much one can do for a fish, I've had my Lfs throw in a freebie that ended up trashing my tanks health too, gee thanks! this film... You had mentioned you used a terrarium plant? Do you still have the packaging? Also some foods with release oils, how visible is this slick? I'm not convinced a net can transfer nasties like that unless it stays moist, a net that has been dried out for a week would most likely be free of contaminants, than again I don't really know, I've accidentally used my net in both tanks within a few minutes and luckily not had any kind if cross contamination.

 

[Caliban07]

sometimes there's not much one can do for a fish, I've had my Lfs throw in a freebie that ended up trashing my tanks health too, gee thanks! this film... You had mentioned you used a terrarium plant? Do you still have the packaging? Also some foods with release oils, how visible is this slick? I'm not convinced a net can transfer nasties like that unless it stays moist, a net that has been dried out for a week would most likely be free of contaminants, than again I don't really know, I've accidentally used my net in both tanks within a few minutes and luckily not had any kind if cross contamination.

I just remembered something. It's strange how you forget these things even though they are so important.....I used media from the tank that had columnaris to seed the cichlid tank. It will have been either before I noticed or after symptoms had disappeared. Having said that there's still no way it could act over night if there was columnaris in surely?

The film I thought was originally coming from the substrate but maybe not, I'll check the package of the remaining bag to see if it mentions anything about this. I don't have the terranium plant package any more but I did google the brand. They didn't say they could be used in an aquarium but didn't say they couldn't. I think I will remove them but this could stress the fish. They are not made from plastic they feel more like a fabric. I'm going to remove them tomorrow and do a water change.

 

[Brookster123]

I just remembered something. It's strange how you forget these things even though they are so important.....I used media from the tank that had columnaris to seed the cichlid tank. It will have been either before I noticed or after symptoms had disappeared. Having said that there's still no way it could act over night if there was columnaris in surely? The film I thought was originally coming from the substrate but maybe not, I'll check the package of the remaining bag to see if it mentions anything about this. I don't have the terranium plant package any more but I did google the brand. They didn't say they could be used in an aquarium but didn't say they couldn't. I think I will remove them but this could stress the fish. They are not made from plastic they feel more like a fabric. I'm going to remove them tomorrow and do a water change.

ooooff that's a tough one, I'm not familiar with the condition, I do know that it comes in different versions, the longer drawn out with lots if symptoms and the 24 hour tornado, I also don't know if it can be transferred through your media, ich can, I'm not sure though.. I have one of those fabric plants, did you ore wash all the gravel and deco's prior to adding them to display?

 

[Caliban07]

ooooff that's a tough one, I'm not familiar with the condition, I do know that it comes in different versions, the longer drawn out with lots if symptoms and the 24 hour tornado, I also don't know if it can be transferred through your media, ich can, I'm not sure though.. I have one of those fabric plants, did you ore wash all the gravel and deco's prior to adding them to display?

I heard about the 2 types I think one is called chronic which is the long drawn out one and the other is acute rapid onset and quick death. I think I'm going to dose the whole tank for bacterial infection. Particularly columnaris. And take it from there. It says that specimen containers can cross infect columnaris and I used the same siphon pump before I bought a separate one. Sometimes these don't dry out fully before I use them again.

Also I'm sure media would be able to cross contaminate. It's either that or this fish was sick from the word go. Like I said I didn't inspect the fish before hand. And what I don't understand is if it was infected acutely over night why is it still alive? Gahhhh!

 

[Brookster123]

I heard about the 2 types I think one is called chronic which is the long drawn out one and the other is acute rapid onset and quick death. I think I'm going to dose the whole tank for bacterial infection. Particularly columnaris. And take it from there. It says that specimen containers can cross infect columnaris and I used the same siphon pump before I bought a separate one. Sometimes these don't dry out fully before I use them again. Also I'm sure media would be able to cross contaminate. It's either that or this fish was sick from the word go. Like I said I didn't inspect the fish before hand. And what I don't understand is if it was infected acutely over night why is it still alive? Gahhhh!

id say it's a safe bet unless it's an aggressive Ned that could do more harm than good to an urge twist healthy fish.. Siphon is a good candidate, do you give it a good rinse before using? There is the chance it's in related and the sick fish is just to run down from poor conditions at your Lfs and just needs time to heal up? I could it be getting beat up at night? My apisto's formed a breeding pair and killed the second female at night..

 

[Caliban07]

id say it's a safe bet unless it's an aggressive Ned that could do more harm than good to an urge twist healthy fish.. Siphon is a good candidate, do you give it a good rinse before using? There is the chance it's in related and the sick fish is just to run down from poor conditions at your Lfs and just needs time to heal up? I could it be getting beat up at night? My apisto's formed a breeding pair and killed the second female at night..

Aggression could be a possibility but there are 4 in the tank. If there was a pair then i would have expected 2 fish to be getting beaten up. I have some water life product that I used on the last tank and API triple sulfa which I used on the last tank. I can't be sure which did the trick if any worked. I think the meds may have killed my cories off though. I think I'll go with the triple sulfa first.