Small tank:Huge filter...is fishless cycling absolutely necessary?

[Stickleback]

I can totally understand the reasoning behind fishless cycling, but knowing my intended end result...I am wondering if the purchase of the test kit and bottle of ammonia, is absolutely needed.

I have a 15 gal tank, with a fluval 403 external canister, which holds 1.8 gal. (small tank : large filter)

I only want a small shoal of White Cloud Mountain Minnows, 6 or 7 total.

If I changed 30% every couple of days, for a week or two, and then every week...could I get away without getting the test kit right now?

I am interested in monitoring water parameters...but it is significant extra expense for my family right now.

I don't want to stress the minnows...but I don't want to stress the wife-o either...

Help please

 

[Crepe]

Yes, although your cycle may happen faster as bacteria will have more room to colonize. The filter is biologically useless until it is cycled.

 

[dkpate]

The test kit is good because it will tell you when you need to change the water. If you have the fish in there, and the ammonia gets to .5 ppm overnight, and you just did a water change the day before, you won't know how hard it is on your fish, and they will have to sit in that ammonia for 2 more days.
If you cycle with fish, you will most likely need to do a pwc every single day for a month or more. 8)

 

[mommytron]

API Freshwater Master test kit is only $18 at walmart.com, plus 97 cents shipping or free site to store shipping.

even if you decide not to do a fishless cycle, you will still need to have a test kit. you will need to monitor the parameters to make sure your fish are not getting poisoned. you can wait for signs of distress to do a water change...but at that point the fish could already be harmed.

IMO, the test kit is even more important while doing a fish-in cycle, because the fishes lives are in your hands, and by putting them in an uncycled tank (especially such a small one) you are putting them at risk.

by the way, the size of the filter really has nothing to do with your water parameters. you could put three of those filters on there and i guarantee it would take the same amount of time to cycle if it only had a dinky, not-so-efficient filter on it. the filter will not remove any ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate. the only importance of the filter for the cycle, is to house all of the beneficial bacteria you need to build up.

 

[Stickleback]

Thanks Crepe for your prompt reply, but were you saying yes tothis bit...

I am wondering if the purchase of the test kit and bottle of ammonia, is absolutely needed.

or this bit...

If I changed 30% every couple of days, for a week or two, and then every week...could I get away without getting the test kit right now?

 

[dkpate]

+1 RT, but I doubt there is a Walmart in Ireland LOL.

 

[mommytron]

LMAO!! i need to start looking where people are from. that's the second time i did that! lol sorry.

 

[Crepe]

Thanks Crepe for your prompt reply, but were you saying yes tothis bit...
or this bit...

Sorry, the first one. There is no sure-fire way to figure out when your cycle is done without the kit and in-fish cycling will work but it is harmful to the fish regardless of filter size.

 

[Stickleback]

Hmmm...just read the other replies, looks like I really need to go for the kit!

Mommytron...the cheapest I can find that kit for in Ireland, is £37 ! Plus £5 for the ammonia!

$66 !

But...hey...I really do not want to harm the wee minnows, I was just hoping that being so understocked, I might have got away with it :/

I'll just have to spend the cash

 

[Stickleback]

Thanks everybody...my mind is made up, fishless it is.

OK...fishless cycling could I get by for a week or two, adding 2.5ml ammonia, to bring the ppm to 5 (ish) and adding 1ml every day or two....and then investing in the £37 kit, and monitoring things from there?

 

[Crepe]

I think you can do that although, you only need 1ml of ammonia. I've done the math before and 1ml is enough to set you at 4ppm with 10% ammonia.

Anyways can't you order online? Also, aren't there walmarts in ireland or has your country banned them. I think your fish store may have the API Master fw kit. Otherwise, order online, it's cheaper regardless.

 

[Stickleback]

Anyways can't you order online?

That is online ! You don't know how well off you are...don't even mention petrol/gasoline !

I might start it cycling with a little ammonia, while waiting for the kit to arrive in the post...save a few days huh?

 

[dkpate]

It's an island, therefore everything is going to be more expensive.

 

[BillD]

If you are only going to keep 6 or 7 white clouds in a 15 gallon tank, you should be able to get by with just doinng regular partial water changes until the filter catches up. If you do a fishless cycle, most of your bacteria will die when you add the fish, as theyose fish will not put enough of a bioload on the filter to keep it alive. I think your original plan will work, nicely. You will in fact have what is sometimes called a "soft cycle" because the load is so small, it is difficult to measure, and the cycle completes almost without notice. If you were to add a few sprigs of hornwort, or egeria/elodea, you wouldn't have any concerns at all. The fact that you won't be heating the tank is also beneficial.
By the way, kudos for deciding to keep white clouds which are a CARE fish, and endagered in the wild.

 

[Stickleback]

oh Bill...between my last comment, and yours I went and ordered a test kit at $37, so I might as well go through the cycling process...

I see what you are saying about the bioload...should I aim for a very low ppm, like maybe 1 or 2ppm, so that the load on the filter when cycling, is closer to what it will be with the minnows?

I didn't know that about the White Clouds...we chose them purely on their own merits

 

[mommytron]

it shouldn't matter what you cycle your tank at. you might as well dose it up to 4ppm initially, then when it hits 0 start dosing it up to 2ppm or so. this will ensure that your filter can handle the bioload. better safe than sorry

 

[Stickleback]

Well, I dosed it 1ml ammonia (as advised by Crepe ) tonight, to start something happening, while I am waiting for the test kit to arrive in the mail.

I'll just read a bit more now...to see if I can grasp what should be happening over the next few weeks!

Another wee question has just popped into my head, sorry for being such a pain, when you add the ammonia...how soon should you measure the levels? Straight after? After a few hours? or next day, before dosing again?

Thanks again everyone

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Nobody has mentioned this, so I figured I should chime in - did you make sure you got pure ammonia, that is, no surfactants?

Also, you could always do what I do - find someone with a dirty sponge filter and squeeze that into your tank. Instant bacterial colony, minimal/no cycle.

 

[Stickleback]

Oh...just BTW...I was able to get the API Master kit for £23.50 ($36.95) that's including postage...so quite a bit cheaper than my first estimate Mommytron Although still not cheap :/
Plus a 500ml bottle of Ammonia for £1.35 ($2) Happy days!

 

[Stickleback]

Nobody has mentioned this, so I figured I should chime in - did you make sure you got pure ammonia, that is, no surfactants?

Yip...I read this somewhere, and checked on the manufacturers website, it is a 9.5% solution
From their site "Only ammonia with natural impurities (9.5% sodium hydroxide diluted in water)."

Thanks though for checking, it would be very easy to overlook something like that!