Staghorn - any solution

[tbonem91]

so I've got a nasty staghorn breakout - in searching online I havent found any real solution nor cause for this nastiness.

Here's my specs:

20g long medium-heavily planted tank
CO2 injected
2X65w Coralife fixture -- Actinic on for 2 hr, then just the 10K for 10 hr, then the Actinic for 4 hr
Ph: 7.2
KH: 11 (buffered with CC)
CO2 = 21ppm (turns on and off with the 10K bulb)
PO4 ~= 5ppm (not dosed)
NO3 - not totally sure, but greater than 40, less than 160 lol (had a slight overdose this weekend)
Fe ~= somewhere around 0.3 or 0.4 ppm
K - plenty but not sure how much

been set up for a couple years but I just recently switched to Eco-Complete, CO2 and high light as well as an XP2

Things I'm considering that I'd like input on:

reducing light time - does algae benefit from my actinics when the plants dont? maybe I need to turn both off for a few hours in the afternoon?
reducing PO4 and lowering my NO3 dosing
increasing CO2

or... is there any fish that someone knows will eat the stuff?

last resort, breaking the tank down, manually removing it all and going back to my 40w 6700 PC fixture


can anyone help? please?

current stocking in this tank will be updated in myInfo shortly after I submit this post.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I think your problem is not the lighting. Actinics have no affect. Should be fine there. But where you want to adjust, is lower PO4 and lower NO3. PO4 should be around 1-1.5ppm, and the NO3 about 10-15ppm. CO2 is pretty good, but you could up it a little more if you like.

 

[tbonem91]

I think your problem is not the lighting. Actinics have no affect. Should be fine there. But where you want to adjust, is lower PO4 and lower NO3. PO4 should be around 1-1.5ppm, and the NO3 about 10-15ppm. CO2 is pretty good, but you could up it a little more if you like.

thanks lwb - I'll do a 50%ish pwc tomorrow and kick up the CO2 a tad - gonna try to get as much out manually as possible.

Do you think I should get some PO4 absorbing filter media to help lower my levels? I never dose any so it seems to come purely from feedings - and I only feed every other or every third day.

 

[rich311k]

It may be in your tap water. I would check that as well.

 

[tbonem91]

It may be in your tap water. I would check that as well.

oh yeah - forgot about that I'll do that before changing the water tonight.

 

[czcz]

I agree you should probably run your tank a little leaner, but crank the CO2 instead of bumping it up a tad. Unless you're keeping Africans or something, you should also consider moving away from CC and instead focus on keeping CO2 at 30ppm or higher if necessary. As I understand, increasing CO2 will force CC to dissolve faster, which may lead to more problems:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?p=541208&highlight=co2#541208

Increasing CO2 and keeping nutrients available is almost always the solution to staghorn and like algae.

 

[tbonem91]

I see what you're saying - I'll test my tap's KH and if it is substantially lower than my tank's (which I assume it to be) then I'll take the coral out of my filter - its actually about 6 pieces the size of a thumb or so, collected from a hawaii beach, not actual "crushed coral"


Edit -- since I cant post after myself

okie doke, so this morning I had turned up my CO2 slightly before going to work.

I come home and HOLY MOLY! the entire tank is pearling like crazy! The java moss, the foxtail, the crypts, the swords, the ludwiga, the pennywort, everything - including the algae - it was nuts (my tank has never pearled before)

Then... I noticed my royal pleco laying sideways on the ground barely breathing, and next to him my zebra botia laying upsidedown barely breathing... and behind them, my clown pleco upsidedown barely breathing. Everything else was dandy - the Otos, guppys, shrimp, everything.

I immediately changed 50% of the water, filled it up and changed another 50% then shut off the lights. After a little bit, all 3 of the nearly-dead fish were fine and swimming.

I tested the PH. 6.2 -- my tap is 7.2 -- doing some rough math, that means prior to my water changes, my PH was around 3ish! I hope to all that is holy that I am wrong in my math that [0.25X + 0.75(7.2) = 6.2] because that would leave me with a CO2 level of around oh... 100,000ppm lol.

Anywho, I didnt get to see what my other readings were for obvious reasons, but my tap shows 0ish PO4 and a KH of 2.

So, I've turned my CO2 back down, below where it was before and tomorrow I will take some of the coral out of the filter to get my KH down a little bit to reduce my hardness swings. I'll also pick up a PO4 reducer tomorrow and try to get things better in line than they are now.

For reference, here's a shot of the pearling after the water change - there are about half as many bubbles in this picture as there were before the mad dash to change out the water.

Also, it seems all of my staghorn growth doubled while I was at work today - I tried manually removing as much as I could but it is a daunting task...

 

[czcz]

Apologies for not explicitly stating so earlier, but when moving away from CC you have to do so gradually, as its the KH swing that affects animals, not pH. One reason you should move away from CC is your injecting CO2 will apparently force it to dissolve faster, increasing KH. Just do so gradually. Glad the fish are okay!

I tested the PH. 6.2 -- my tap is 7.2 -- doing some rough math, that means prior to my water changes, my PH was around 3ish!

I think it is unlikely that pH holds such a linear relationship, especially since tap is often rich in CO2, so I wouldn't worry about that exact level fwiw. Just move forward and gradually increase CO2 over a few days. Or gradually move away from CC first.

Very sweet pic. If staghorn got a boost it doesn't matter longterm: the goal is to keep the higher ordered plants happy to outcompete that algae. Manually removing it is good: one of Tom Barr's methods is to physically mess with algae, then do a large water change to remove any algal spores that may be floating around.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I'm just curious why you want to remove the CC? I have a small handful of CC in my filter and I'm injecting CO2 myself as well. Without the CC, my kh is 60. With the CC, my kh is stable at 100. This way I only need to drop my ph to 6.7 to get decent CO2 levels. But currently I'm pushing it down to 6.3 for other reasons, which puts my CO2 quite high. The algae that I once had in my 75G is gone now, completely, with the exception of the stuff that makes my anacharis look a little dirty. Other than that, my swords are algae free, as well as my corkscrew vals, etc.

 

[czcz]

Here's another piece of info that may explain better:

Using Crushed Coral:

This adds calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate is largely insoluble...however carbonic acid (CO2) increases it's solubility. Adding calcium carbonate in the form of crushed coral is a bit unpredictable. It will raise GH due to the calcium, and KH due to the carbonate, and pH because KH and pH are directly linked. The amount of the increase and the time the increase takes is largely unpredictable. For this reason I'm not real fond of this method.

From one of Steve Hampton's posts here: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=55512

If you subscribe to the modern thoughtand collective experience stating KH swings harm animals, not pH swings, the inconsistent rate CC disolves with CO2 injection is more detrimental than the pH drop (say, from 6.7 to 6.3) of not buffering KH. If one needs to raise KH, be it for hardwater fish or peace of mind, wiser to do it with baking soda for controlled increases with more stability and predictibility. Travis does it this way, for example.

But, I have not used CC, and if ain't broke...