Starting a 29g tank, Few questions about setup & fish..

[chineseknife]

The fish, when you get to them in the larger tank, is a whole other story. Some fish find a spot and stick to it. Others roam around freely. Some species can be kept with the same species while others can't. Aggresive is aggressive and if an aggressive fish wants to bully another fish of any kind, it will. There are a lot options regarding this subject. This in the inhab list in my tank..
Standard 55g undrilled tank(no sump/refugium)
260w p/c
emporer400(used occassionally to run carbon and other media)
AquaC skimmer(HOB)
Seaclone150 skimmer(HOB)
2 Sieo M1500's
approx. 65lbs LR(no other mechanical or biological filtration)
3"-4" aragonite sand bed
FISH:
2 false percs(2nd fish addition-hosting a bta)
3 Green Chromis(added directly after cycle-started with 6-these are often preferred to damsels)
1 Coral Beauty(3rd fish addition)
1 Yellow Tang(final fish addition)
1 Cleaner shrimp(added right after cycle)
1 Emerald green crab(added immediately after cycle)
about 30 different snails and hermits(mostly cerith snails and blue leg hermits- ther's a few oddballs in there)
I won't go down the coral list, it's too long and aren't sure if you want to eventually add corals anyway...Keep us posted and keep the progress pics coming, too....Good Luck!

 

[seaham358]

Damsels will take a territory like you say, I had 7 yellow tail damsels in my 125 (lfs said it was a good idea)and they fought all the time and the only time they got together was when a new fish was put in the tank. They would scout it out and if it was smaller or a med size fish the damsels would then form a pack and beat the crap out of the new fish. These $2 fish cost me lots of $$$. The only time they got along was when they were kicking some fish tail.
I now have 2 left and they have split the 125 in half. They are nice looking fish but are nasty..

 

[TheChad]

Wow, That's a horror story if I ever saw one!

Our's just don't seam that mean, but I guess we'll find out....


You can always force them to be humblized..... If you have a fish that is bigger and more aggressive than they are, put em in with that fish, let THEM get picked on.. Heh.

-TheChad

 

[InxayonFinland]

hahaha never thought of that.

 

[chineseknife]

You will be surprised at the damage damsels can inflict, sheer terror....some damsels can get to 4"-5" inches, increasing their chances to bully others. I agree with the pleasingness to the eye aspect. I have wanted a fiji damsel for a while, but have restrained due to above said stories. Forcing them would cause undue stress. This is where decisions have to be made as to what your long term goals are. Sure a damsel might be okay with other fish in a larger aquarium(I would reccommend a 90 or bigger), but if they are constantly fighting then they lose out on their natural behavior and any fish that get bullied don't get the chance to even call your tank "home". Check compatability charts and find out what others are keeoing with their damsels if you are set on keeping them. Any luck with finding a local aquarist to take them. Did you check to see if the lfs would just simply take them back?

 

[TheChad]

What should the pH be at for a Saltwater tank? According to the saltwater test kit it says it should be at 8.2. When i tested the water the other day everything was at 0ppm, except Ammonia which was at 0.25ppm, and the pH was at 8.0, Today I tested the water again and the Ammonia was at 0ppm, but the pH had dropped to 7.0, is this part of the cycling process, or should I be worried?


Thanks,

-TheChad

 

[lando]

A normal Ph for a SW tank is about 8.0-8.3. It will vary from tank to tank and depending on the light and time of day. The most important factor in Ph is to eliminate dramatic swings. Fish can tolerate upper and lower ends of noramal Ph pretty well but they have problems with drastic changes in Ph. (one more reason to take your fish back until the cycle is complete). Ph during the cycle itself is really not too important. Once the cycle is complete, do a large (50%) water change. This will help get Ph up to where it needs to be and will also provide a buffer via the salf mix. It is hard to tell exactly where you are at in your cycle due to the fish being in the tank. Have you tested NO2 lately? In the meantime, try to point one or two powerheads towards the surface of the water, breaking it a little. This rippling on the water's surface will give you better gas exchange and may help get Ph up.

 

[AMANIQU77]

I talked to the wife, she doesn't want to get rid of anything in our current tank... We will cycle the new tank with the raw shrimp Fishless methoid as you all have suggested, before transfering the damsels.

As I mentioned before, after we learn from thease 2 tanks.

I assume damsels and other aggressive fish if placed into a large enough tank will take pick a small territory and leave other fish alone?
-TheChad

Hello Chad, I respect your desire for a SW tank. However, not in a disrespectful way whatsoever, you are here talking to us and you wife isn't. Why confer with your wife about your hobby?

Powerheads serve the "H2O circulation and surface agitation" purpose, to name a couple. Remember, you're trying to simulate the ocean. Bubbles may add to surface agitation. But the surface agitation it makes doesn't compare to powerheads. It's peanuts.

If you and your wife likes damsels, keep them. At least you know the experiences of everyone of us with damsels. And not all are good experiences.

Also, the UGF is an inefficient filter. You know why? Because after less than 6 months, the space under the platform will be the collection area of sludge. That will kill your tank eventually. I humbly ask you to trust our advise because a lot of us had tried your path and ignored our peers here hoping to be the "exception". We're proven wrong 100% at a time.

Don't trust the LFS. Most of them don't know what they're saying. When they talk about "well, this thing here's been UGF for 20 years", remember it's a holding tank. Nothing lives there for 20 years. So don't be impresed by them. They always go "trust me..." or "I've had those for so many years and they coexist peacefully" or "UGFs are good filters..." or "We do this for a living, we know better than forums". Just remember, they are in the business of making money. We are in the business of compassion towards fish and towards other hobbyists. Good luck!

 

[seaham358]

AmaniQ, "Why confer with your wife about your hobby?"

Making a comment like this leads me to believe your single!!!
I need to check with the "BOSS" when making large purchases and we talk over what fish we want to get. A lot of spouses are into the hobby also, granted I do all the work but my wife enjoys that tank and looking at the fish. And keeping her into the hobby makes it easier getting the toys I want.
And after being into this for a few years now she wants me to get a larger tank for my fowlr... Thats right she said larger... 8O 8O

 

[AMANIQU77]

AmaniQ, "Why confer with your wife about your hobby?"

Making a comment like this leads me to believe your single!!!
I need to check with the "BOSS" when making large purchases and we talk over what fish we want to get. A lot of spouses are into the hobby also, granted I do all the work but my wife enjoys that tank and looking at the fish. And keeping her into the hobby makes it easier getting the toys I want.
And after being into this for a few years now she wants me to get a larger tank for my fowlr... Thats right she said larger... 8O 8O

Hahaha! I used to be like that, you know, taking her to the LFS with me and browsing for stuff. We had a lot of fun. However, the more she sees how much those SW fish are, the more she's concerned everytime I go buy stuff. The less she's aware of the prices, the easier it is to sneak in stuff. She can't complain about my hobby though because she is a mall-a-holic. Blackmail, anyone?

I used to overstock my tank. She loved the porcupine puffer, the Cow fish, the yellow tail damsels, and the white spotted puffer. She didn't want to give them up. So I told her that it has to happen or else they'll die. Then I assured her that better stuff that would fit the tank will come along since I will get store credit. She liked the new stuff instead. It's that easy, boys.

Seaham, your approach is great! I hope you played it hard to get first, you know. Kinda like, pausing and thinking first about it when she mentioned getting a bigger tank. Oh that would've been hilarious.

Seaham's wife: "Honey, we should get a larger tank"

Lucky Seaham looking away, thinking: "Hmm....You think?....Should we?....That would be a good idea but.....Are you sure?....OK, if that's what YOU want"

 

[seaham358]

LOL....

I am lucky... The wife is the one who started this craziness with a 55 FW tank in early 2002. She likes the look of the 120 so that may be the summer project for the fowlr..
The ballast went on the reef a month ago and she say we need to get a back up in case this happens again.... I was just like you said.. Are you sure??? Ok!! I'll look into getting one

 

[dscount]

LOL- My wife gets a nervous twitch everytime I break out the tape measure and start walking around the tank while poking at things and talking outloud about changing things.

It's true I have to sneak small parts / pieces into the system myself. It's those $100+ parts that 'pre-approval' requires some prior planning. Eyes usually roll when I say we "NEED" this for the tank.

 

[AMANIQU77]

My wife gets a nervous twitch everytime I break out the tape measure and start walking around the tank

LOL! The tape measure ought to do it. I could only imagine your face imagining a project. And I could only imagine your wife starting to have a wrinkle on the forehead over "oh no, what now". See, that's it, it's the tape measure that made me roll on the floor laughing.

 

[TheChad]

I know you all have expressed your opinions/experience/thoughts about cycling a tank with live fish, but as you all know we have (Had) 2 damsels, a Yellow Tail, and a Blue Damsel.

The yellow tail is doing great, and has been since the day we put him in the tank.

However we have now had 2 Blue Damsels, both have died. The first died the day after we put him in the tank, (He never did look good, he was always dark blue/black), The 2nd we got the next day after the 1st died, He looked great, he swam around with the yellow tail, and all seamed good, untill about 4 days ago, when he stopped swimming around, and just hung out in the corner of the tank, only moving a few inches here and there. I didn't really see him eating either, Yesterday, he died.

Are the blue damsels not as "Hardy" as the yellow tail? Is there any reason that the blue damsels would keep dieing, while the yellow tail has no problems? Or is it just a stress/luck type thing? I figure the 1st was probably stressed, and untimently died, the 2nd though showed no signs of stress at all.

At first I thought maybe the tank was beginning to cycle and prehaps the adverse water condition of the cycle may have been the problem, but i tested it again, and as with all my other tests, everything is 0, and the PH is ~8.0, the SG is showing 1.023 on my hydrometer.

So it doesn't even look like the tank is trying to cycle (Which I would think it should be!?!?) However there does apeer to be some algie growing on the silk plant, about 8 brown spots (Nothing looks to be growing on the glass though!?!?) The tank has been running for about 2.5 weeks.

Thanks for the help,

-TheChad

 

[Feron]

How were they acclimated to the environment?
Improper acclimation will kill em dead as a hammer in no time flat..

How long did you have the second blue before he went tango uniform on ya?
Other then that, maybe they were just doomed at the store and you ended up dealing with the deaths, not them.

Kinda hard to say.

 

[TheChad]

They were acclimated as suggested by the LFS. Place the bag into the tank let stand for 15 minutes, add 1 cup of water, wait 15 minutes, at a 2nd cup of water, wait 15 minutes, add a 3rd cup of water, wait 15 minutes, then pour bag & fish into tank.

The 2nd blue damsel was alive for about 12 days. He was just fine, untill the last few days of his life.

A Different LFS, suggested that the blue damsels and the yellow tailed damsels don't get along, and the yellow tailed damsel probably picked on the blue damsel....

The LFS that i bought the tank and the damsels from said they would get along fine together, and the didn't seam to fight at all...

----------------------------


On another note, I did a few things as suggested by all of you, I purchased a powerhead it is a Penguin 660, it flows 170GPH. I only bought one, Should I get 2 of thease or will one be good for a Fish Only tank? I am going to ditch the air pump and air stones. There are 4 tube positions on the UGF, 2 at the outer edges (Where my tibes are now) and 2 next to each other in the middle, If i am using just the 1 powerhead which place should I put the tube?

We are going to go ahead and install the BIO wheel, because we already have it, and some have said it doesn't do too bad of a job, we will be doing our water changes every 1-2 weeks, so as i understand it, that will be set for good water conditions?

-TheChad

 

[chineseknife]

At 2.5 weeks I would hardly say that you're tank is cycled, IMO of course. Some damsels are just plain mean, so it could be fighting. I would go with handling at the fish store as a possible cause. As for your acclimation procedure, sounds good except for the bag pouring. Also, I would never pour water from a lfs tank into my own tank, never. Use a net and place the fish in the water.
If you have ditched the airstones and have 4 tubes and one powerhead, how effecient is that ugf going to be, really? I personally, would still ditch the ugf(while there's still time, and just mount the powerhead on the tank(I am guessing it came with mounting hardware or suction cups). With fish only, 170 should be okay, especially with little fish. The bio-wheel will help with the cycle, but once it's over I would remove the bio-wheel. Even if you leave it in and do water changes eveery1-2 weeks, there will always be a source for trates to build and be released into the tank.

 

[TheChad]

Many have suggested to just remove the wheel part of the bio wheel filter, basically making it a carbon& sponge filter, with a 150gph flow.


The UFG has 4 places to put tubes, 2 of them are capped off (In the middle), the UGF currently uses the 2 outer tubes in the corners of the tank.


I talked to a guy at the the LFS (Not an employee, a customer), He said he uses an UGF, and when he does it weekly/byweekly water changes, he uses a syphon vacume and cleans the rocks (Since he has to remove water anyway), he said as long as you use the syphon vacume, and don't neglect doing it, the UGF isn't a problem....!?

-TheChad

 

[Wood_Dog]

Chad, I run a UGF, do weekly water changes, vaccum, feed only a couple of times a week and have heaps of lr ( stacked so that as little as possible is touching the substrate, leaving more room for the UGF to do it's thing) So far I have had no probs, Hope it stays that way.If you are going to go this way stay on top of things, test regularly and don't overstock. Definately get more lr.
Good luck

 

[chineseknife]

SInce it looks as if you are going to stay with ugf, then I would personally mount one powerhead on each tube, but at least on two of them. Which two? Either the 2 outer or two inner tubes. Since you can point the powerhead outlet pretty much in any direction I would say the outer two, maximizing the potential water flow under the filter plate.