The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling

[Bettababe1011]

someone told me rock or sand are not need it in a fish tank IS THIS TRUE?

My frog tank is bare bottom because he loses his food in the substrate, but all my regular tanks have substrate.

 

[eco23]

My frog tank is bare bottom because he loses his food in the substrate, but all my regular tanks have substrate.

Interesting. Do you think some of these lfs just do it for easier maintenance? I always feel bad for them swimming around in an empty tank with everything bare. At least I'm sure you've got some deco in there, these lfs are barren.

 

[Bettababe1011]

Interesting. Do you think some of these lfs just do it for easier maintenance? I always feel bad for them swimming around in an empty tank with everything bare. At least I'm sure you've got some deco in there, these lfs are barren.

Yeah, I have some cave like things for the frog to hide in.

I do feel sorry for the fish with nothing in there. My fish store actually has gravel and decor, and are fairly clean. Not pristine, but not making me say uck either.

I do think it's to keep it cleaner, because I find with my bare bottom tank, the snail can get to the food that the frog misses easier, and it doesn't get stuck in substrate. It keeps my tank a lot cleaner.

For fish, I wouldn't keep them in a bare bottom tank unless it's qt. My fish are always doing something with the gravel, whether that's looking at it, or picking some of the algae off of it. (My guppies mainly, they eat some of the diatoms on my decor and gravel, but don't touch the stuff on the glass. it gets annoying, diotoms I mean.)

 

[CaptainMako]

:x Can I ask some questions about fishless cycling. Sort of in a dilemma but I don't want to talk you guys off a cliff.

 

[Bettababe1011]

:x Can I ask some questions about fishless cycling. Sort of in a dilemma but I don't want to talk you guys off a cliff.

Of course.

We may get a little off topic at times, but this thread is essentially here to be a really good guide, and asking questions makes it even better.

 

[eco23]

:x Can I ask some questions about fishless cycling. Sort of in a dilemma but I don't want to talk you guys off a cliff.

That's what we're here for . Fire away.

 

[CaptainMako]

So I have a twenty-nine gallon freshwater tank, with six dalmatian mollies.
It is uncycled, because I had to get them out of the one gallon home they were stuck in before.
I was skimpy on water testing and PWC's before, but I have just started doing them more regularly. However, somewhere along the line my fish got sick and started getting fungus and pop eye. It seems the only way to treat them is to finally cycle my tank.
I have a few options. Because I don't want them to suffer any more, I can either move them back to the one gallon (which would stress them out) or euthanize them. But I definately want to cycle fishless to save time and suffering.
I'm just confused as to some things. I know I check the water every day for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, but when do I actually do water changes? I've tried gathering lots from the first page, but this illudes me. There's probably other things too, because I have an unusually thick skull, but still.

 

[eco23]

So I have a twenty-nine gallon freshwater tank, with six dalmatian mollies.
It is uncycled, because I had to get them out of the one gallon home they were stuck in before.
I was skimpy on water testing and PWC's before, but I have just started doing them more regularly. However, somewhere along the line my fish got sick and started getting fungus and pop eye. It seems the only way to treat them is to finally cycle my tank.
I have a few options. Because I don't want them to suffer any more, I can either move them back to the one gallon (which would stress them out) or euthanize them. But I definately want to cycle fishless to save time and suffering.
I'm just confused as to some things. I know I check the water every day for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, but when do I actually do water changes? I've tried gathering lots from the first page, but this illudes me. There's probably other things too, because I have an unusually thick skull, but still.

So, you're considering putting the mollies into a 1 gallon, and fishless cycling the 29 gallon? First, I unfortunately wouldn't think that would be an option. If they are already sick and stressed, a tank that size would spell the end. I'm sorry your fish are not doing well :-(

In a fishless cycle, only 2 water changes are necessary...one during the height of your cycle when the levels of no2 and no3 are absolutely high, and another large one once the cycle is complete. Because there are no fish in the tank it's okay to not do pwc's, but with any type of fish in a tank during a fish-in cycle, daily pwc's are normally necessary.

I'd have to defer to another member about relocating the mollies (it doesn't sound like an option to me), but unfortunately I'd have to recommend trying to complete the cycle with the fish still in the 29 gallon. Here's a great article to help you through it.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...-but-i-already-have-fish-what-now-116287.html

Is the smaller tank currently stocked? If not, how long has it been empty?

 

[CaptainMako]

Maybe I just answered my own question by reading this. It's that link that Mr. Limpet hands out all the time and it had something that caught my eye.

" If you absolutely can’t bear to part with your new finned friends, it’s time to roll up your sleeves and get dedicated. TEST your water daily (or more) and change it as needed! You may need to do this more than once a day so don’t be surprised. This regimen shouldn’t last longer than a month or so. Despite perpetual rumor and misinformation, changing water WILL NOT slow down your cycle and will keep your fish healthy."

So I can cycle with my fish in the tank as long as I am always monitoring, and they will be fine?

EDIT:
That would be the very page, yep. I will read on that, but can anyone summarize just so I don't lose my mind halfway through reading it? It just involves regular water changes, with ammonia and nitrites not ever getting above .25? If they do, change the water, but it will still be enough for the bacteria to grow?

 

[eco23]

Maybe I just answered my own question by reading this. It's that link that Mr. Limpet hands out all the time and it had something that caught my eye.

" If you absolutely can’t bear to part with your new finned friends, it’s time to roll up your sleeves and get dedicated. TEST your water daily (or more) and change it as needed! You may need to do this more than once a day so don’t be surprised. This regimen shouldn’t last longer than a month or so. Despite perpetual rumor and misinformation, changing water WILL NOT slow down your cycle and will keep your fish healthy."

So I can cycle with my fish in the tank as long as I am always monitoring, and they will be fine?

As long as you are vigilant and have patience and commitment, you can get your fish through it. Just check out the article I linked and keep on top of the daily pwc's. You want to always keep the ammo level below .25 to prevent your fish from suffering. I'm sure you can do it

 

[CaptainMako]

So let me get this straight, just to see if a week of research on a simple topic was enough for my goldfish IQ to comprehend:

I can cycle my tank, with fish, and still successfully cycle the tank, cure my fish and keep them healthy?
I will be checking ammo, nitrite and nitrate levels every day. If ammo or nitrite get higher than 0.25, I do a 25% water change.
I continue this process unti ammonia and nitrites consistently read zero, and nitrate levels rise.
Once that is achieved, my tank is cycled and everything returns to normality, with weekly PWC's keeping the tank in line.

God I hope all of that was right.

 

[eco23]

So let me get this straight, just to see if a week of research on a simple topic was enough for my goldfish IQ to comprehend:

I can cycle my tank, with fish, and still successfully cycle the tank, cure my fish and keep them healthy?
I will be checking ammo, nitrite and nitrate levels every day. If ammo or nitrite get higher than 0.25, I do a 25% water change.
I continue this process unti ammonia and nitrites consistently read zero, and nitrate levels rise.
Once that is achieved, my tank is cycled and everything returns to normality, with weekly PWC's keeping the tank in line.

God I hope all of that was right.

You've pretty much got it nailed. Only things I'd point out are that the pwc's are not set to a certain time or percentage, they will be based off your readings and how often they're needed. So, if you see the ammo levels are high, it may take one or two 50% pwc's to get it below .25. In theory, a 50% pwc should reduce your levels by half, a 25% pwc reduce them by a quarter, etc... I'd also suggest buying a big bottle of Seachem Prime to always dechlorinate your water with when changing water. The Prime will also help detoxify some of the ammo and no2.

 

[eco23]

Just a couple more things to add... Don't waste you're test solution testing for nitrAtes every day. Their levels only become important towards the end of the process. Just pay attention to the ammonia and nitrIte levels for now.

Also, if your fish have an infection or fungus...simply cycling the tank won't cure them. I'd find out the root cause and treat it. Keep a close eye on your water parameters if you use medications because they can be damaging to the bacteria that you are trying to grow during a cycle. Good luck!

 

[CaptainMako]

Okay, so no matter what, I am always aiming for my ammonia and nitrite to be below 0.25, regardless of how many or what volume of PWC's I need to do?

I am going to Petco here in a bit for a master testing kit, but lots of people talk about Prime. I use API Stress Coat dechlrinator. Will the prime detoxify ammo and no2 to my fish, but still allow it to be eaten by the bacteria? If so, great!

EDIT:
As for the fungus, I use Pimafix. It worked great before for a fungal attack. Can I treat them with Pimafix the same time this is going on, but just dose it right after any water changes if I do them?

 

[eco23]

Okay, so no matter what, I am always aiming for my ammonia and nitrite to be below 0.25, regardless of how many or what volume of PWC's I need to do?

I am going to Petco here in a bit for a master testing kit, but lots of people talk about Prime. I use API Stress Coat dechlrinator. Will the prime detoxify ammo and no2 to my fish, but still allow it to be eaten by the bacteria? If so, great!

Yep, the Prime temporarily detoxifies it but the bacteria can still eat it. And I think you've got the hang of everything else. . I wish you and your fish the best of luck.

 

[CaptainMako]

Great, thank you so much! This took so long to get into my head.

 

[eco23]

Great, thank you so much! This took so long to get into my head.

Happy to help, I'm sure it'll all work out. Thanks for making the effort to give your fish a good home

 

[Bettababe1011]

Happy to help, I'm sure it'll all work out. Thanks for making the effort to give your fish a good home

Exactly. That's what matters. I did the fishless way, and still had plenty of problems when I finally did get fish, but those problems are being worked out. I did want to give up at times, but I just kept going, and now everything is almost fixed. Hang in there.

 

[EGMono]

someone told me rock or sand are not need it in a fish tank IS THIS TRUE?

Store tanks are often set up this way. Keep in mind the store is hoping to not have that fish a week when their next order of fish arrive...

Rock and/or sand adds surface area for bacteria as its been said, but also some fish get freaked out by the reflective surface of the bottom glass.

 

[eco23]

Store tanks are often set up this way. Keep in mind the store is hoping to not have that fish a week when their next order of fish arrive...

Rock and/or sand adds surface area for bacteria as its been said, but also some fish get freaked out by the reflective surface of the bottom glass.

Makes sense to me. Plus, I can't imagine a bare bottom tank would look very attractive. I try to mimic the fishes natural habitat as close as possible. I don't like to look at my aquarium and see fish in a tank...I like to view it as a piece of nature I get to enjoy.