The worst was/is yet to come

[Hara]

No chemical off any kind has been used except for putting GAC in the sump when all this started happening.

We can add to the death toll, the blue hippo tang, the lawnmower blennie, the clam and sea apple. The red spots on the lion are getting worse and I am now pondering tankwide bacterial infection as the cause. Does this make sense to anyone? The only fish with outward signs of it would be the lionfish, as I had been trying to research the red spots and came up with that.

 

[d9hp]

I am terribly sorry for your losses Hara. I have no clue, my thoughts were the apple.

 

[reefrunner69]

The bacterial infection could be secondary. But it could be viral which would effect the fish, but not the corals to a large extent.

 

[Guest]

Ok, think I will shed some info I got from a guy whos been doing this hobby for 15 years. He lives in the country and uses well water for his fills and top off. One day about 4 months ago, he was noticing his nitrates were very high and decided to do a water change. He did 60% at one time and wham all fish and inverts except for Corals died. I know this sounds like a recap of Haras story, however, this is the truth. He had very expensive fish in there and I got into a heated conversation because I asked him why 60% at one time. Come to find out, there were contaminates in his well water and it passed all of the tests he had until the city tested it because he noticed it didn't taste right. It had some sort of bacteria in it that was caused by what they said, and get this, rainfall and the nearby creek..I thought it was a load of crud myself, but, He has since gotten an RO unit and things are fine...He now uses it for drinking water too. All of his new fish are well.

PS,,,he explained to me that the reason for such large water changes was that he did not believe in skimming and DSB's go figure. To each his own right?

 

[michealprater]

I do believe there is things that can live in water that will kill fish that we dont have test kits for. I mean, is there a such thing as a test kit to recognize pesticides, herbacides and all the other cides?

 

[Hara]

The only thing is ... the other tanks, the seahorse and the 55 are fine. They all had water changes less than a week ago.

 

[reefrunner69]

OK, we have ruled out the source water as the problem. That leaves a condition in the tank that is effecting water quality, we have to ask why your nitrites and nitrates went up. Or disease. Or both. The high nitrites, which would likely effect the lion last could be the stressor that brought on a bacterial infection. Again my prob with the water quality issue is the lack of negative response from te corals.

 

[d9hp]

Maybe it is one of those cases like when you go to the Doc, and he says, I have never seen this before. Of course you get a little upset. I am sure someone will find it

 

[Hara]

just lost the rabbitfish

 

[jorcutt]

Unfortunately, I have no advice, just thought I'd chime in my experience. A number of years ago, I disrupted a pocket of hydrogen sulfide in my reef and didn't realize the damage I'd done until waking up the next morning to find all fish and most inverts dead. A few of the corals looked a bit stressed, but they all pulled through just fine. Not saying you've done anything to cause such a release, just that that was the only time I'd known of such immediate fish loss with no harm to corals. My heart goes out to you.

 

[Hara]

This morning, the readings are trites at .03 trates at 20.
The sailfin is barely alive and the other two fish, lion and sfe look very questionable. One of the hawaiian feather duster worms has left its tube.

Thanks all for the sympathy as there are not too many around who understand
what I am going through.

 

[Anemoneman]

Hara,
I'm very sorry to hear you're going through this nightmare. I will only offer my sympathy and one opinion.
I would not rule out the well water in spite of no effect in the other tanks. It could have been a local contamination or other unkown. With the number of tanks and expense of inhabitants you have I suggest using RO/DI for your water. It will remove one unknown from the equation.

Hope things turn around for you.

Mark

 

[fergieturk]

Hi Hara,
I've been following your situation, I'm really sorry for all your losses.
Is there anyway you can put the fish in a tank that is not affect by whatever is going on, just to prevent more losses? If course moving them would probably stress them more.... Just a suggestion. I hope everything works out for you.
Again, sorry for your losses.

 

[Hara]

I have tried to move the fish on several occasions, the Naso tang killed himself by bashing the sides of the bucket, the flame ange, lmb, rabbitfish, all lived an extra day in a hospital tank. Moved the seaapple to a 30 gallon that had been up for months but had no inhabitants. All with the same end result.

 

[stresco]

Hara,
I am so sory for all your losses. It sounds like a nightmare coming true. Is it possible that a contaminent was added to your tank by accident? Do you an outside cleaning crew? Maybe one of your buckets or tank tools was used by someone that didnt know any better.

 

[Guest]

Hara, I just talked to the LFS owner here, and he said that a Sea Apple no matter how little the toxin, can kill all of your inhabitants, and the corals left untouched and then if large enough, can wipe out your tank altogether...There is an article that is in the FAMA magazine that mentions this also..June issue..

BTW, He will not sell them anymore due to the destruction they have caused him in the past...

Still sorry to hear about all this...

 

[Hara]

Thanks Tim, the sea apple was removed as soon as the snails started falling off the walls, still very healthy and happy looking. We did not want it to toss its innards into the tank......and the seaapple toxins would not account for super high trites and trates frm what i have been told.

 

[Guest]

and the seaapple toxins would not account for super high trites and trates frm what i have been told

That may be however, all the death would..Rotting snails and what not.., The article in the FAMA is very adament about the reactions that Sea Apples take when threatened or feel threatened. They use the Toxin when they are frightened. That is why I said any amount of toxins enven small amounts..There is no test kit for this in our reach...JMO

 

[michealprater]

I think Tim is on the right track. I have always been warned about sea apples, because of their abilty to wipe a tank out. Plus you are naturally going to have nitrate problems with dying snail. The only think that would throw this theory off is if you had a nitrate problem before there was death.

 

[Guest]

I read the article again and I am going to make bold decision and say that the nightmare was caused by the Sea Apple. They do not have to burst or explode toi release toxins in the water. I am sorry for your loss and I hate to sound rough but, I would never own one of those. They are very beautiful but one of the most deadly things we can own in a tank.

PS. For anyone who wants a Sea Apple, I would recommend no Hermit crabs in the same tank, as they could possibly agitate it and cause extreme fatalities. Please educate yourself before purchasing.

Here is a good article on them from the Advanced Aquarist website:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/invert.htm