Treatment killing fish???

[JasonC]

So I am at the end of day for in a 5 to 7 day treatment of my tank using Bifuran+. Starting last night, I have been noticing that my fish (see sig.) have been behaving very oddly... the Gourami has stayed at the top of the tank, I am assuming making good use of his Labrynth organ... The Pleco, for lack of better terms, seems disoriented, swimming in the middle of the tank, often vertical, will try to attach to surfaces backside first, or if he does attach, doesnt seem to stay attached as well as usual. He will also sink, or swim to the bottom of the tank and lay on his back or side for a bit.

Is the Bifuran+ treatment killing my fish? Directions say use a capful per 10 gals daily following a PWC. It does not say how much of one though. 1st day I did a 50%, 2nd a 25% 3rd and 4th a 50%. Any ideas on what is going on?

Thanks!

 

[JasonC]

hmm... top of post should read "at end of day FOUR" not for... blah

 

[Alaris]

Test for ammonia. Most meds will kill your beneficial bacterial causing your tank to recycle.

 

[JasonC]

Test for ammonia. Most meds will kill your beneficial bacterial causing your tank to recycle.

Yeah, I was expecting this to happen and have been keeping an eye on this over the past few days... Been a solid zero to this point. Just re-did the test and it came up a doughnut. At least I think it did... the unfortunate side of Bifuran+ is that it turns the water yellow... but the test was a dead match on the swatch card... so I am not sure to what extent the meds are actually affecting outcome.

The only thing I can think of is that the tank is too saturated w/ the meds... but problem is that the meds give absolutly no clue as to % water change is needed.

blah...

 

[Zagz]

Add some active carbon to your filter and stop the meds. Do a 50% water change and if you don't have an airstone, add one.

 

[JasonC]

Add some active carbon to your filter and stop the meds. Do a 50% water change and if you don't have an airstone, add one.

So I am assuming you are saying to halt the treatment period? I guess I am at an impass as the infection being treated on the Gourami's face has not resolved yet, and while his dorsal fin looks better, it is not completely healed. What can I do to continue treating those problems in lieu of the meds?

Gotta remember... if it was easy, it wouldnt be worth it ;P

 

[Zagz]

I think that if there is a super saturation of medication in the tank, they fish will still benefit from the treatment. It will take a day or two to tell if the fish is still recovering. If not another medication may be necessary, one that has a lesser effect.

If it were me I would try stopping the treatment. The other fish's reaction is saying there is something wrong. I agree it will be too tough to tell on an ammonia test if the water is yellow from the meds. Either way reducing the concentration of the medication in the water will most likely not harm the gourami and will most likely aid the other fish.

 

[JasonC]

A super Saturation was what my first concern was too. I will go ahead and add the carbon... already have done the 50% PWC tonight, but held off on dosing the meds til I heard more from you all. As far as the Gourami, will keep an eye on the fin as its the most obvious improvement to me.

For the sore, it seemed to get much smaller, but today actually seems to have returned to normal size and is protruding out more. The cottony substance almost looks like it is falling off. Is this a "Scab" getting ready to slough off, or are we actually getting worse?

I have attached a link to the original post re the sore if you want more specific details/pic of what I am talking about.

thanks again for your help!

Jason

 

[JasonC]

sorry... here is the link:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f17/sore-on-dwarf-gourami-redux-106981.html

 

[Zagz]

Can you get a more recent picture? It may be healing. You can always change to a different medication once this one is removed.

 

[JasonC]

I will gladly try to get a more recent one... only prob is the previous was *Very* difficult to get. But I'll give it a whirl.

thanks again for all your help... I have become hopelessly addicted to this site... and it has been *Very* worth it.

Best,

Jason

 

[Zagz]

Whatever I can do to help. I've been there believe me.

 

[JasonC]

Okay... so I dont have a digital fast/good enough to get a good closeup of the sore, but the attached picture is the best I could do. Sore is on cheek. what you cant see is that it is protruding out, and there is still some fuzzy white substance on it... but like I said, until a day or so ago, the fuzz was a tight covering, now it is loose and almost looks like it is sloughing off.

hope this helps

Jason

 

[JasonC]

Woulda been nice if I had attached the picture.... Its below.


On a sad note, the pleco died overnight. I'm not sure what happened. the only thing that I could see was that the plecos belly region turned purple. Any idea what that means? Now I am *extremely* frustrated... the pleco wasnt the sick fish... he shouldnt have been the casualty... I'm a little steamed w/ my LFS right now...

 

[Zagz]

I still don't see a picture. Is there fresh looking skin under the part that is sloughing off? I am not convinced that it is healing necessarily. Sorry for the loss of your pleco.

 

[JasonC]

wow... apparently, it was past my bedtime last night... two attachment fails?? yeesh... Lets try this again...

Thanks for the wellwishes... it definitely wasnt the best way to start the day.


So Gourami is still acting unhappy. Should I consider another heavy water change tonight?

Thanks again!

 

[Zagz]

Have you tested the parameters recently? I would do 25% pwc. Do you have an extra airstone or bubbler in the tank? Have you added any active carbon to the filter?

 

[JasonC]

Is there fresh looking skin under the part that is sloughing off? I am not convinced that it is healing necessarily.

I'm not sure... til a few days into the treatment, you could see the sore clearly, and it wasnt til he turned to the side that you could see the white "cap" on it. Now, its not a nice button on top... I dont know if it is increasing, or if it is starting to fall apart.. but it is now much more opaque. I really cant tell what the skin is doing.

Have you tested the parameters recently? I would do 25% pwc. Do you have an extra airstone or bubbler in the tank? Have you added any active carbon to the filter?

Carbon went in last night, there is an airstone in the tank.

Been doing water checks almost obsessively every 24 hours. Just did it for the sake of the conversation and found:

pH - 7.4
Ammonia - 0
NitrIte - 0
NitrAte - appx 7

This to me seems odd. I have no biological filter now because of the meds.. there should be ammonia! I know its not converting, because nitrates should be higher... my straight tap tests at appx 7ppm nitrates.


oh the joy...

 

[Zagz]

It's ok don't worry yet. Just keep an eye on the parameters. And please keep updating how the fish are doing.

 

[JasonC]

Well, had a near-death-experience w/ him today when I got home. Dwarf Gourami was tangled up at an odd angle in a plant, no movement whatsoever. tap on glass, nothing... not even a pumping gill. After a few choice words about how much I love BiFuran+, I grabbed my net to pull him out. Thats when my wife noticed him twitch... was able to finally coax/help him out of the spot. Ran tests, Ammonia had gone up a *hair*... still below .25, but had a definite green tinge. Went ahead and did about a 60% PWC. Hour and a half later, I am seeing a *little* activity out of him.. though mostly he is laying on the bottom of the tank at a slight list. He still doesnt look happy.

With him not moving, I went ahead and tried to get more pictures. I am noticing 2 new things... first, black marks around his mouth and face. Second, on his side, what looks like a slight indent and some white marks.. doesnt look like the "Salt crystals" of ich though.

The side picture has a good shot of his face sore and then midway back and high is the white area I was talking about. Should be able to see it... sorry the picture is so bad... low light. The front shot shows the black marks around the mouth.

Any ideas on any of this?