water change?

[CubicGgW]

I've come to think about this question couple of times, and i dont seem to find a strong argument to have water changes when you have good circulation of water as well as good filtration from LR and LS. i think i'm missing something here, what makes water change so important if the stated conditions are good? @__@
thx~

 

[jamal-188]

I've wondered this as well. I have a fish/invert tank only(for now) but I do a 10% weekly change even thought my amonia/ph/nitrite/nitrate are all perfect.

 

[jackdp]

Over time water quality will deteriorate regardless of good filtration and and flow. Trace elements will be depleted by fish, inverts, bacteria, plants etc...all these will take up elements from the water. Also, when you take out water, you are inevitably taking out some "bad" stuff that your filters may leave behind.

 

[fishfreek]

This is what I can say. Many people who have been on the "you dont need to change your water" side of the debate will go and change their water for one reason or another and more often than not will comment "my tank has never looked better".

There are many trace elements that are cointained within the saltwater. These trace elements are consitered essencial items to support live in the ocean therefor they are included in our salt mix's. Not changing water will cause these tracelements to be used up and if not replaced will slowly degrade the water quality to a point that its no longer able to support the life thats contained within the tank.

Sure you could add suplmments to replace these trace elements but there are many more elements than there are suppliments. The only real way to replentish these elements is to do water changes on a regular basis.

I do weekly water changes on my tanks. I use white Instant Ocean buckets for both my clean and dirty water and I can tell you even doing weekly water changes and feeding VERY spairingly the dirty water ALWAYS looks yellow in compairson to the clear fresh saltwater in the bucket beside it.

 

[snapcrackler]

That's a big one to tackle IMHO

I have a recent post that talks about... one of my FW tanks that has been running for years without any significant water changes besides the occasional vacuum (live plants eat the rest of the poop) , breeding plecos and guppies.

There's a significant bioload, however the tank is in the sunlight for most of the day and has a huge amount of gas exchange (big big circulation via powerheads, a momma of a HOB, mag350 with biowheel) and big bio filtration.

Breeding freely and happily are 4 species of plecos along with an abundance of semifancy guppies. Baby guppies everywhere, have to net a big pile of them to sell every couple months.

I lose about 5 gallons minimum of water per week in this particular 70G FW, and just top off. The water quality of the tank has remains superb. The water has a fresh springy smell to it. All tests are primo excellent.

So I must say this...

In general : Water chemistry is insanely complex, anyone who claims that they *completely* understand water chemist to the "T" may be disillusioned, and... water changes are still a fine thing to do IMHO. Anyone looking back though history will see a string of ornery scientists who fight off anyone who disagrees with their theories. One might call this chronological snobbery.

I remember reading a dated, highly acclaimed medical piece regarding yellow fever.. it explained in detail how people "catch" yellow fever... from breathing damp vapor from standing water and mud.

They just forgot about the mosquitoes back then.

So what I mean is that we as people can get stuck in ruts sometimes and defend our rut without understanding fully the chemistry of the rut. I for one do not understand my particular rut with the 70FW. So I will not defend it too much.

That particular 70FW gup/pleco tank just happens to be thriving sans changes. My water chemistry, sunlight, tank occupants, substrate, filtration, etc somehow is working great with this setup. And if my fish are breeding like crazy and the baby plecos and baby guppies are chowing down happily and all tests say perfect then that's good enough for me. If someone needs to do water changes then that rocks too. I do them too.. it just depends on the tank, man.

 

[snapcrackler]

There are many trace elements that are cointained within the saltwater. These trace elements are consitered essencial items to support live in the ocean therefor they are included in our salt mix's. Not changing water will cause these tracelements to be used up and if not replaced will slowly degrade the water quality to a point that its no longer able to support the life thats contained within the tank.

I absolutely agree 100 million percent and could not agree more. My post was referring to FW (which needs mins too) and I understand what you are saying.

I think my particular situation with the 70FW is just unusual with the sunlight, algae, filtration, heavy evap etc.

Trace minerals IMHO are extremely important and that is one excellent point. Providing your makeup/change water contains those mins of course.

I personally use colloidal minerals as daily (human) supplement and will not go without because I have learned the huge benefits of them esp in this nutrient/mineral deficient age. So I can ID with any organism needing them.

8)

 

[fishfreek]

snapcracker I personaly dont feel that you can compair the maintance of a FW tank reguarless how successful it is to a SW tank becase of the fact that your daily topoffs of your FW tank is in essence replacing minerals that your tank is using (unless of course your using 100% pure RO/DI water).

In SW our daily replacement of evaporated water is not replacing those elements because those elements are not often found in our water supply in the proper levels.

 

[RogerMcAllen]

Snap, you mention a FW tank. I don't think us freshies need to worry about trace elements. The only thing I can think of that a freshie would need is maybe some iodine for crabs to make shells with.

 

[snapcrackler]

snapcracker I personaly dont feel that you can compair the maintance of a FW tank reguarless how successful it is to a SW tank.

I agree FF, and I was not trying to compare them in the least. I keep both FW and SW and both have entirely different requirements IMHO.

My initial post was based entirely on FW and I both understand and agree with your statements regarding SW.

 

[CubicGgW]

ah~ ha! that is the missing link i guess
i guess i totally forgot about the trace elements in the SW... (how could i...)
i do agree now, water change is essential, like you all mentioned, remove some bad stuffs and more importantly replacing important elements back into the tank.
Thank you all!! it was really helpful!!

 

[MT79]

Do RO/DI remove any of those trace minerals? Or are they too small to be filtered out? IF so additives would still be necessary. No questions a stupid question, I think.

 

[birman]

fishfreek, how much water do you change each week? Just considering will that be a feasible practice to adopt here.

 

[snapcrackler]

And if I would have read a little closer I would have seen that the first post mentioned LR meaning it was a SW...



My apologies esp to FF, for some reason i just went off rambling because I thought he the topic was about FW.

I'm going to go hide now.

 

[BlueSteelBOy]

Lately i have been bring my water to a boil and letting it sit for a day till i do a water change. i do this to like ten gallons of water and i also dissolve the salt while it is still hot. Do anyone else do this? i hve an 46 gallon tank and i do this bi-weekly.

 

[RogerMcAllen]

Sounds like a good idea to me. That would boil out any unwanted dissolved gasses, but perhaps it would raise the PH. Not really sure.

 

[BlueSteelBOy]

Well i once mess up bad just by adding only one gallon of unaged tap water. Lost two cleaner shrimp and two fire shrimp. For some reason they froze up. That was a quick $100 dollars down the drain. Plus i like doing it this way cause all the salt is totally dissolve. i stored it in two five gallon kentwood container until i do the water change. Been great so far considring how stock my tank is right now.

 

[jamal-188]

Do RO/DI remove any of those trace minerals? Or are they too small to be filtered out? IF so additives would still be necessary. No questions a stupid question, I think.

I"m pretty sure ro units remove everything so it's just pure H20. But the salt mixtures you buy has trace elements in it and I belive some people even add other bottled trace elements.

 

[Biggen]

The salt mix has everything you need for your basic setup. Other additives are added on a "as-needed" bases (i.e. CA, MG, ALK, etc...)

 

[Michel]

Blue Steel,
IMO it's not good idea to mix your salt while your water is that hot, you may have a funny chemical reaction ! I would wait until it's back at room temperature and what would boiling actually achieve ???? If it's good for drinking. By boiling you are not removing any unwanted things you are concentrating them are you not ?
Unlike distilled water where they precipitate the vaps ...
JMO