Water chem - CO2 help

[RobbyDoom]

I'm having some issues here....lol.

Using the basic KH/CO2 chart: my levels are KH=2 + PH=6.8 = 9.5 CO2.
Now, my GH is off the chart, stopped at 20 drops. The buffers in my tap water are really quite intense. I'm using almond leaves to drop PH. They seem to help level my PH at 6.8. If I leave the test tube, with tested water in it, I've noticed that, after 1, maybe two days, the PH is now 7.0-7.4.
I'm using pressurized CO2, with an inline CO2 "reactor", with total diffusion.
My bubble rate is roughly 3 bubbles per second.

So, I have quite a bit of CO2 going in, without any results, via the chart. I don't trust the drop checker, because it's always green, whether CO2 is on or off. Perhaps the dKH4 water in it, has some other variables, that are unforeseen by me, but at the end of the day, that's neither here nor there. In fact I've read Tom Barr say he only uses the graph, a PH metre and his knowledge alone.

My tap water has a KH=4, but GH=20+. So adding tap water would add more KH, but also make the GH and PH higher, thusly decreasing my CO2.
So my only other option, is to increase my bubble rate.
Anyone have some insight here.

 

[Brookster123]

What size tank?

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[RobbyDoom]

33 gallon long.

More info:
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 40ppm
Ammonia: 0ppm

Flourite Dark base, Fluval Stratum cap
Mixture of lace rock, petrified wood and small piece of Manzanita
2 Marineland C-160 canisters
48" T8 shop light setup w/ 6500k daylight and Floramax tubes

 

[Brookster123]

More co2!

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[RobbyDoom]

More co2!

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That's pretty much my guess. My fish are fine now, so I'll up it a bubble until I see a PH drop and still have healthy fish. I bought an extra CO2 bottle anyhow, so I'm in excess.
That and trying to lower PH a bit more. Perhaps some peat might help. I, of course, won't change bubble rate, when I add peat. If the PH drops too much, I'll draw back the CO2 accordingly.

 

[PerfectDepth]

So, I have quite a bit of CO2 going in, without any results, via the chart. I don't trust the drop checker, because it's always green, whether CO2 is on or off. Perhaps the dKH4 water in it, has some other variables, that are unforeseen by me, but at the end of the day, that's neither here nor there.

I would trust the drop checker. Mine stays green all the time, too. Try this: stick your drop checker to the inside of a container of plain tap water. I'm willing to bet it will turn blue after a couple hours. Keep in mind that a drop checker takes a couple hours to respond to a change in CO2 concentration, so if it's always green, it's likely because the drop in CO2 concentration after shutoff is not prolonged enough to show a different reading.

Here's what's probably happening: The CO2 shuts off, CO2 concentration starts to drop, which means the drop checker is no longer at equilibrium, and starts to slowly gas out CO2. Then the lights shut off, and the plants start producing CO2. Even though the CO2 in the tank dropped, the CO2 concentration inside the drop checker has not had time to adjust, and is still very close to the same level as before, so the color never changes. If it's the same color during lights-out, it just means your plants are producing a similar amount of CO2 as your CO2 system is adding during the daytime.

 

[Brookster123]

Lots of pros don't even use a dc, they judge based off the plants pearling and fish behavior. Op- now that I'm thinking about it.. do you have a quad t8? That's only a 12" tall tank? Do your plants pearl? My kh is on the low side so i.have to pump a lot of co2 into my tanks to keep up.with the higher light.

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[RobbyDoom]

I would trust the drop checker. Mine stays green all the time, too. Try this: stick your drop checker to the inside of a container of plain tap water. I'm willing to bet it will turn blue after a couple hours. Keep in mind that a drop checker takes a couple hours to respond to a change in CO2 concentration, so if it's always green, it's likely because the drop in CO2 concentration after shutoff is not prolonged enough to show a different reading.

Here's what's probably happening: The CO2 shuts off, CO2 concentration starts to drop, which means the drop checker is no longer at equilibrium, and starts to slowly gas out CO2. Then the lights shut off, and the plants start producing CO2. Even though the CO2 in the tank dropped, the CO2 concentration inside the drop checker has not had time to adjust, and is still very close to the same level as before, so the color never changes. If it's the same color during lights-out, it just means your plants are producing a similar amount of CO2 as your CO2 system is adding during the daytime.

The drop checker shows green in and out of water. Turned green when I put fresh dKH4 water in and added solution. I put it in to see if it would change colour at all in the aquarium, but it just stayed green. I never bothered to take it out. I'll either make new dKH4 or buy some. In my previous 33 gallon, with the same set up and only one filter, my water chem was near perfect and the same drop checker, with the same solution, went blue a 1/2 hour to 45 minutes after lights out/Co2 off.
So I think the solution is bunk.

 

[Brookster123]

I read somewhere that the xdkh needs to be matched to your actual water parameters.. I'll bet if you set it in spring water it'd change blue.. it may be worth researching a differnt reference solution? Wish I knew more for you..

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[RobbyDoom]

Lots of pros don't even use a dc, they judge based off the plants pearling and fish behavior. Op- now that I'm thinking about it.. do you have a quad t8? That's only a 12" tall tank? Do your plants pearl? My kh is on the low side so i.have to pump a lot of co2 into my tanks to keep up.with the higher light.

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Just 2 lights. I had 2 6500k, but noticed brutal BBM, but fat leaves. Since I've switch 1 out for a floramax, I've noticed increased stem height between trims, but smaller new leaf growth and decrease in BBM. I'm hoping with more CO2, in addition to some added fast growth plants, the BBM will subside. There's not a lot, but enough to get you frustrated.

 

[Brookster123]

BBM?

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[RobbyDoom]

I read somewhere that the xdkh needs to be matched to your actual water parameters.. I'll bet if you set it in spring water it'd change blue.. it may be worth researching a differnt reference solution? Wish I knew more for you..

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Apparently Amano uses the aquarium water, but I've read so much conflicting info, I just go for the norm and do 4dKH. Either way, as long as it's not yellow I guess.

 

[RobbyDoom]

BBM?

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Yeah, you know, those bloody black berry's that invade your aquarium...LOL.
BBA* Silly autocorrect.

 

[PerfectDepth]

The drop checker shows green in and out of water. Turned green when I put fresh dKH4 water in and added solution. I put it in to see if it would change colour at all in the aquarium, but it just stayed green. I never bothered to take it out. I'll either make new dKH4 or buy some. In my previous 33 gallon, with the same set up and only one filter, my water chem was near perfect and the same drop checker, with the same solution, went blue a 1/2 hour to 45 minutes after lights out/Co2 off.
So I think the solution is bunk.

Yeah, that's strange. Is it possible your pH indicator liquid is expired?

It'd be best to boost KH somehow, so you can maintain your pH close to neutral and still have plenty of CO2. What are you using for water changes? Straight tap water, or are you mixing with RO water? Instead of adding more tap water, you could instead add more RO water along with some sodium bicarbonate as a KH booster.

I've read that KH tests are actually testing total alkalinity, but I'm not so sure.. If it's true, that would mean 1) your water is not as well-buffered as you think, and 2) your actual KH is even lower than 2, meaning your CO2 concentration is even lower, too. Any algae problems?

 

[Caliban07]

You should by some premixed solution for the drop check and replace it every time you do a water change to maintain a certain degree of accuracy.

Drop checkers are merely for indication only and any method using titration will always have some discrepancies, not to mention their response times. Even the back of the DC box will state that it is an approximate value.

The best way to measure dissolved co2 is by using an electronic meter that measures partial pressure. The prices will be insane though.

The pros are probably on to something by watching the behaviour of the livestock. And as you know the chart is based on a calculation that cannot be used for our tanks. Trust the drop checker by all means but it may be best to use the manufacturers pre-mixed solution and changing it regularly.


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[PerfectDepth]

Another pro-tip for CO2: record the difference in pH just before lights-out. If your pH rises during the photoperiod, that means your plants are exhausting the CO2 supply.