Water quality issues

[ryansmith8907]

Ok so I purchased a house that has two eclipse 3's built into the wall (about 40gallons each I believe). Both tanks had gone unattended, unfed, and unpowered for about 5-6 months until I could finally get to close on the house. To my surprise several fish survived. Well things have taken a turn and as the tanks began to clear up i started doing weekly (sometimes biweekly) water changes, however I could never get my nitrate levels below 160ppm in one of the tanks. Finally at the suggestion of the local pet store I started this trouble tank over. That problem is solved.

After I re-started the tank I realized that my well water had a very high PH (about 8.1-8.2) and my tanked also matched this level. Therefore, any new fish I added would die off one per day until I was left with only the original tetra that came with the house. The local pet store recommended me to change the gravel to lower the ph. I purchased it but then started looking online and people didn't seem to agree with her solution. My question on this ...is it ever necessary to change the gravel and will that help with my ph problem. Obviously if im putting in 8.2ph level water the tank would probably maintain that.

So i went to lowes the other day and spent about 70 bucks on 5 gallon buckets of water (ph tested at 6.7-6.8). I did a 25% water change expecting to see results (none what so ever). I realize that gradual changes are the best anyway but i still have fish dying on me daily. I've also attached a picture of some rock recor that i'm wondering could be raising the ph. Any thoughts?

I just purchased some driftwood but I'm not sure really how to use it. By that I mean, if i resort back to using my tap water and the driftwood is keeping the ph constant and low wouldn't doing a water change cause swings in the overall ph? Should i forget the drift wood and just use purchased water from the store?

Any answers are greatly appreciated. I've put alot of work into the these tanks so far and am growing very frustrated because i keep spending money on fish that only die.

 

[jessipanda]

Is it with both tanks, or did you just “restart” one? If just the one, did you discard/replace the filter contents, or clean the stuff that was there? That's where most of the beneficial bacteria live that process the ammonia and nitrites into nitrates. I apologize if you already know this.

Also, what are the ammonia and nitrite readings? And how have you been acclimating the new fish? If the LFS you're purchasing the fish from has a significant difference in pH or other readings compared to your tank, not acclimating them correctly could easily cause death. With such a high pH, I'd recommend the drip method or at least putting them in a container/tub with the lfs water and a heater. Get the temp to the same as the tank, then slowly replace the tub water with water from your tank over the course of 30mins-1hr. If you drop them straight into your tank, even after matching temps, and they came from acidic pH or even close to neutral, that's a HUGE difference and can severely stress them. Drip acclimating them allows them to slowly get used to the difference in water parameters. You can also ask the lfs to test their water and give you the parameters for an initial idea of what the fish are used to.

Just some things to take into consideration. Sorry if you've already known/done everything I mention.

As for trying to alter your pH with chemicals or even driftwood, you're better off not and just getting fish that prefer that harder water. The chemicals can change the pH far too quickly and drastically for fish to handle, and driftwood doesn't really change it that much. If you just want driftwood in the tank then go for it! It's great for helping create a more natural environment and is necessary for some bottom dwellers if you're interested in them.

Again, sorry if you know any/all of this. Just going by what I've been learning over the past year. Also, I'm still pretty new to the hobby so I def. don't have all the answers! Lol

 

[ryansmith8907]

water Issues

Thanks so much for the reply. My ammonia and nitrite levels are at 0 ppm and my nitrate levels are at 15-20ppm.

i just restarted the one tank, primarily because i couldn't get the nitrates to come down at all. On the tank i "restarted" i did replace the filter but not the bio wheel.

When i accumulate the new fish I let them sit in the thank with the water they came in for about 20 mins. I then add water from the tank to accumulate them to equal the water they came in (so now double the water). I then let it sit for 20 mins. After that time is up I net them into the tank (discarding the water they came in). I've never ph tested the water they came in but I would assume the high PH is what is killing them.

I got impatient today (as i always do), bagged the fish up in a gallon size bag of their usual water, and restarted the tank again. This time though I used store bought purified water with a PH of about 6.7-6.9. I also removed the rocks that seem in question to be causing the increase in PH (the picture in my first post). Once the heater has had time to get the water up to temp. I'll let the fish (still in their bag) sit overnight in it and then introduce them tomorrow once the tank has cycled.

Any other ideas?

 

[jessipanda]

Have you tried putting the rock in a separate bowl with your well water and test the water before and after? If your well water has 8.1-8.2 pH, as does your tank, I doubt the rock is doing anything. And getting purified water with a pH of 6.7-6.9 is only a temp solution unless you keep using that for your water changes. Once you do a water change with your well water, that pH is going to jump up quick and kill any fish in the tank.

Your acclimating process may still be very sudden of pH change for the fish IF the lfs water pH is significantly lower. Have you tested their water? I would do several smaller water exchanges over the span of an hour instead of just matching temp then basically splitting the pH in half by adding the same amount of tank water to the bag, then throwing them into the high pH. For example, if their water is 7.0 and yours is 8.2, splitting it in half would jump the pH in the bag up to 7.6 instantly. Then 20 mins later, they're in 8.2. Those are BIG jumps. The slower you can acclimate them, the better. I just use a black 5 gal bucket, with a small submersible heater and a mini air stone. I get an extra gallon of water from the lfs when I buy fish and put that and the bag in the bucket. I set the heater in the bucket to the tank temp. After about 15 mins the temp should match and i release the fish into the lfs water in the bucket. Then, i set a timer for 5 mins. Every time it goes off I use a small container to remove a little water from the bucket, discard it, and get a scoop from the tank and put it in the bucket. After about an hour of that, it should be mostly, if not all, tank water. The fish are slowly acclimated to my pH and other parameters, making is less stressful for them to be placed in my tank.

Google drip acclimating. Many fish can adjust to your pH. Try looking up fish that prefer harder water. I have an electric blue ram (which are soft water fish that prefer pH of around 6.6) that is doing beautifully in my community tank with a pH of 7.6. I drip acclimated her to the tank and she's never shown any signs of stress at all. Been there for about 2 months.

My point is, you're better off getting fish that can handle your specific pH, but many can adjust to it if you do it correctly.

 

[ryansmith8907]

Good points

Thanks again for the reply.

So they fish are in an open bag that is tied to the side of the tank until the tank does a full 24 hour cycle. I'll assimilate them like you talked about. I guess I didn't realize how little would be so drastic for them. I assumed a massive swing was more then 1+ on the PH scale. I had been deceived by people online saying that ph really doesn't play that big of a role (i was quite misinformed).

I also placed the rocks in a 2.5gallon buck of water that tested at a perfect 7ph (store bought water). I'll watch it for a week and see if this is my culprit. I should be able to be continue purchasing store bought water with a more ideal ph. If my tap water was closer to yours I would be a little more comfortable but at 8.2-8.3 thats pretty rough stuff (considering thats the PH of seawater and backing soda).

Thanks again for all your help and i'll keep you updated on how things go.

 

[jessipanda]

That bag you have them in is going to accumulate ammonia very quickly. I'd recommend not getting fish prior to having a tank ready for them next time... Honestly, that's going to increase the chances you will have deaths. Also, just because your water has a higher pH than mine, doesn't mean you can't have some nice fish in there. Would you consider doing a brackish water tank? Might be a better option with your tap water. Just a thought.

 

[ryansmith8907]

Thanks for the advise. I wish I had gotten that message before i went to bed. They made it through the day and i was about to begin assimilating them this evening and decided to check the PH in the tank before i began. The PH had grown from 6.8 (store bought water) to 7.6 overnight. I'm testing the water in a separate bucket now to see if that is attributed to a buffer that was in the water. In the meantime (until i figure out whats going on) I've decided to put the fish in my other tank (also with a high ph) for now until I can figure out whats wrong.

So i'm assuming that its either a gravel problem or a buffer problem in the water itself. This would explain though why I would do water changes (20-30%) and ever time I would loose a fish (the massive PH swings).

Any thoughts?