When will it happen?

[Logans dad]

Thanks for the welcome.
I have a 75 gal tank my son talked my wife and I into buying. Had tanks and raised Angel fish 30 years ago but I dont remember having so much trouble. Back In the day If you set up a new tank and put fish in it right away and then waited like 3 weeks to add fish it was OK and they didnt die. Maybe we over did it with fish. 5 Tiger Barbs, 2 Clowns, 2 Silver Dollars, 3 dianios, 10 Neon's. 2 Albino cat fish. All but 1 neon's died and we knew we took a chance with that. 1 Silver Dollar died, Both Clowns Died, 1 cat fish, And now looks like a Barb is going to die.

Tank started out great the first week. Second week the Ammonia came up for a week then went to zero and then the trouble started when the nitrites came up on week 3. Fish got Ick and we treated it for a week and it was looking good but then they got it again. First three weeks we did 2 water changes a week. Then 4Th week we went to every other day with water changes with the Nitrites off the map and this is when the fish started dying. This is the 5th week and we see the nitrAtes are coming up so we hope this is the next phase of the cycle. Tap water checks 0 on nitrites and nitrAtes. Water changes were all 30 gallons. We use Prime. I use to use water rite back in the day but cant find it now. Now our fish store says wait 5 days to change water again.

How come some people dont get a high Nitrites readings and some do?

We also got a 30 gallon tank yesterday to put the fish in as we know we have two weeks until the Nitrites come up and hope the big tank will be cycled by then. What do some of you think about all this?

 

[Coleallensmom]

I am sorry to hear of your fish losses. To answer you question about your nitrites are so high? It's because you're not doing partial water changes often enough. Your local fish store (LFS) is giving your very poor advice. You should NOT be waiting 5 days to change water...I have no idea why they would tell you that. Basically, to break it down and make it easy to understand, every new tank needs to grow bacteria to process fish waste...this process is what everyone refers to as "cycling". When testing your water parameters, you will see the fish waste register as ammonia. Once some good bacteria starts to grow and breaks down the ammonia, you will get a NitrIte reading. As more good bacteria begins to grow, the nitrItes will be converted into NitrAtes. Once you consistantly get 0ppm readings for Ammonia and NitrIte, then you know your cycle has been completed. Until that happens however, it is up to you to keep track of your daily ammonia and nitrIte levels. Any reading over .25ppm of Ammonia and NitrItes can start to stress/harm your fish. (NitrAtes are not as harmful to your fish and any reading under 20 is ideal while up to <40ppm is acceptable.) Anytime your Ammonia or NitrItes are over .25ppm, you need to do a partial water change (PWC) to lower them. This may mean daily or even 2x daily partial water changes. Anytime you add fresh water to the tank, it will help your ammonia and nitrite levels to go down (which in turn means healthier fish). The reason your nitrItes are so high is simply because you are not doing water changes often enough. I can see that you've been testing you water...what are you using to test? If you don't have a liquid test kit I highly recommend getting one as soon as possible. They are the most reliable way of testing you water and can be found at many Pet stores. (API Freshwater test kit is a very popular brand.) The only way to make it through the cycling period of a new tank w/o fish deaths is by testing your water daily and doing daily PWCs to keep your ammonia and nitrite levels low.

The 75 gal will not continue to cycle on it's own w/o an ammonia source. By putting the remaining fish in the 30 gallon, you are just going to start over at the begining of the process in a new tank, so doing that does not really "fix" your water quaility issues. If you want to keep them in the 30 gal because of the high nitrites in the 75 gal right now, be prepared to do more water changes this time around or you'll find yourself in the middle of another huge nitrite spike. I'd highly recommend buying some ammonia asap and finishing out the cycle in the 75 gallon so that it is ready for fish. You might find this helpful: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/fishless-cycling-for-dummies-103339.html

 

[Engel]

I'm a total beginner dealing with my own set of issues, so I can't really give you knowledgeable advice, but I am learning that what Coleallensmom said is accurate. I also know that I wasn't having nearly as many issues internally before I learned about all this cycling business... now it's ALL I can think about. Hope all goes well, and I'd love to hear a follow up about how it turns out.

 

[mfdrookie516]

There's a link in my signature called 'cycling with fish'. It's a thread a very knowledgeable Mentor here started. It basically stresses the importance of water changes as often as necessary (most likely daily) to keep ammonia and nitrite levels as low as possible.

I would definitely suggest taking back the fish and doing a fishless cycle.

 

[Logans dad]

Thanks for the fast responses. We do have like a 6 bottle test kit. I'm just mad it takes so long for the cycle. Its like the last 2 weeks we haven't had any change and the Nitrites are off the chart, Dark purple.
We still left the Dani's in the tank, Three of them and they are about 2 1/2 inch fish. They seem to be doing fine.
I guess the ammonia is just up a hair and the Nitrates are reading now as of three days ago but it seems we do 30 gal water changes and Nitrite readings seem the same. I guess we need to change maybe half the water.
Does a small tank cycle faster? If some one could bottle good Bacteria so the tank would cycle in a week they could get rich LOL.
I have read till my wife gets mad Ive been on hear to long for days LOL. I guess Ive read that the cycle can take up to 8 weeks on some tanks.
I'm thankful for forums and this is one of the best Ive come across. I have learned so much from them for our Asphalt race car to my 4 cylinder 11 second car to golfing and now fish again. Thank you.

 

[Coleallensmom]

I understand your frustration, but splitting the fish between the two tanks is not going to solve your issues. It just means that you will have two tanks in the process of cycling instead of just one. (IMO, larger tanks are easier to cycle because you have a larger water volume to work with.) Read the article that mfdrookie suggested. I can not emphasize doing PWCs enough. It's the *only* way to make it through a cycling tank with fish. Can you tell us exactly what your water parameters are? Ammonia? Nitrite? Nitrate? I would recommend doing no less than 50% daily water changes whenever a new tank is going through an ammonia/nitrite spike.

 

[Deep Seven]

Just a note, I've heard many times that when you have high nitrItes the nitrAte test can be inaccurate.

 

[Logans dad]

We are doing a 75 % change now but our reason to get the second tank was because we figured it would be over a week before it started its cycle and hopefully the big tank would be done cycling then we could get the fish back in it. Then the small tank would be for the sick fish. Did I say this is fun LOL. Then after a couple hours we will check everything and I will post it.

 

[Logans dad]

Just changed all but 4 inches and the readings I got after 1/2 hour. Ammonia last week was at 0
High ph 7.4
Ammonia 0.50
Nitrite 0.50
NitrAte 40 to 80

 

[Coleallensmom]

The smaller tank in all likely hood will get a higher ammonia level faster than the larger tank did because it has less water volume. The only thing playing in your favor is that you now have less fish.

.50ppm ammonia/nitrites is not HORRIBLE, but still way to high. The 40-80ppm Nitrates needs to be lowered as well. I'd suggest doing another 50% change later today. (Just be careful that you match water temp and remember your water conditioner when doing all these PWCs.) Shouldn't be too much longer now until your tank is cycled.

 

[Logans dad]

Thanks for the advice and saying the cycle is about done. My son is afraid another change today will take out good bacteria and I told him Ive read it doesn't.

 

[fort384]

PWCs do not remove much of the nitrobacter/nitrosoma. The bacteria colonies live attached to things like the bio media in your filter and the substrate in your tank.

 

[Coleallensmom]

+1 Almost all of your bacteria lives in your substrate, your filter materials, and the ornaments in your tank.

You still have to work through those ammonia and nitrite readings but nitrates are usually a good sign that the cycle is progressing.

 

[Logans dad]

Thanks again. We are going to do another 50 % after supper and before greenbay woops up on that other team LOL. I think it will be a very close game.

 

[Logans dad]

sampled Nitrites and nitrAtes this afternoon and it was high again from this mornings 75 % change.
Nitrites 5
Nitrates 80
Ammonia25
Then did another 75 % change and
Nitrites .25
NitrAtes 40 to 80 we didnt check Ammonia as its always pretty low.

 

[mfdrookie516]

we didnt check Ammonia as its always pretty low.

Never assume... Ammonia and Nitrite are the main two you really want to focus on testing right now.

On another note... I find this kind of funny... Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community - View Profile: logansmomma1228

 

[Coleallensmom]

5ppm Nitrites and 80ppm Nitrates is pretty high...Good job on completing that 2nd PWC!

 

[Logans dad]

Ive went by Logans Dad since my son started racing as everybody knew him LOL.
My son did another change this morning of about 60 gallons and maybe a half hour later he did a sample and this is what we got.
Ammonia .25
Nitrites.50
NitrAtes 80 to 160
He said before changing the water Nitrites and TrAtes were off the chart again. They can rise that much in 1 day? And I hope this doesn't last much longer. My wife is going to beat me up when the water bill comes!!

Should we do another 60 gals this afternoon?

 

[fort384]

I would do another 50% change. The values are still too high... and yes they can rise that much in a day. We are talking about minuscule values here... parts per million. With the nitrite spike that you have, I think you are still in for another week or so of this at least, but you will turn the corner... it takes patience and persistence.

If there is a next time, do a fishless cycle... no PWCs required until the end of the process.

Once the cycle takes hold, you will be looking at doing a 30-50% PWC once every 1-2 weeks or so... so it will get easier.

 

[Logans dad]

This is some weird stuff. Did another 75% change then waited an hour to tast and this is what we got.
Ammomia .50
Nitrites .25
NitrAtes 20 to maybe 40
Why would the Ammonia go up. I will test it again as maybe I put 1 drop to much out of a bottle.