Yet another cycling question (with pics)

[Reygan2]

Here's a pic of test results 6 days into my 10g fishless cycle using seeded media from my established 29g. My ph test yesterday was off the charts, but it's a normal 7.2 today, it doesn't show up well because of the camera angle. Anyway, I thought the tank would cycle instantly, and I probably shouldn't have dosed up to 4ppm after adding the media, but am I on the right track? The nitrites were zero 2 days ago.

 

[jlk]

Based on the pic, your right on track! Your amm looks like it dropped to 2 from 4ppm & you have nitrites & nitrates! Wait for the amm to drop to zero before redosing. You may want to consider only dosing up to 2ppm when it does zero out if you have high nitrites.

 

[Reygan2]

Thanks, will do. Are you certain I shouldn't dose again tonight?

 

[jlk]

I would let it drop a bit further but if you want to dose it back up to 4, you are fine to do so!

 

[Reygan2]

Ok, day 7. My concern now is that my ph is reading 6.6. I have real dw in there, so would that lower it or is it part of the cycle? I know it can be, so I added some fish flakes, will that help? My trites are at 5 ppm. Should I do a pwc? My ammo is down to 1ppm, and trates are up between 40 and 80. It's really coming along now...I just don't want it to stall

One more thing. I'm finding baby snails today. Can they survive the toxic conditions? I'd really like to keep them. Should I put them in my other tank?

 

[jlk]

The ph drop is bit concerning- any lower & your cycle will slow & eventually stall. The nitrifying bacteria use the buffers in the water in order to process amm & nitrite. I think its time for a big water change to re-establish your buffers to prevent a ph crash. Just make sure you temp match your water & dose appropriate conditioner. I dont know if the snails can survive toxic conditions- you may want to move them else where if you want to keep them.

 

[Reygan2]

Ph is even lower today..6.4. Nitrites are dark purple, even after a 50% pwc. Nitrates are 80ppm. I tested the ph before the pwc, afterwards it was a weird color, too dark for the reg test and the high range color didn't match either?? Anyway, amm was less than .25 before the pwc.
Should I do another pwc? I dosed the tank back to appx 3ppm. This is day 8. Should it be taking this long with seeded media? Oh, btw, I have live plants and dw in this tank.

 

[librarygirl]

Ph is even lower today..6.4. Nitrites are dark purple, even after a 50% pwc. Nitrates are 80ppm. I tested the ph before the pwc, afterwards it was a weird color, too dark for the reg test and the high range color didn't match either?? Anyway, amm was less than .25 before the pwc.
Should I do another pwc? I dosed the tank back to appx 3ppm. This is day 8. Should it be taking this long with seeded media? Oh, btw, I have live plants and dw in this tank.

The water change was a good call given the PH drop. Did the high range PH look like a lighter version of the lightest color? If so it's probably between 7.4 and 7.6 which is ok. I dont think another pwc is necessary tonight, let's see how things look tomorrow night.

Seeded media acts differently b/c the amount of bacteria on the media is enough to sustain whatever tank it came from, so there just may not be enough to fully convert the 4 ppms of ammonia you're dosing, but no worries it will still shorten the cycle overall.

 

[Reygan2]

Update: Major ph crash. The color is almost 6.0-less than 6.4 . My ph out of the tap in 7.6, and in my other cycled tank it is around 7 because of the dw.
My nitrites are dark purple (5.0)
My nitrates are nearly 160.
Ammonia- <.25
I did a pwc yesterday and then tested ph..it was through the roof. Now it's so low in less than 24 hrs? According to what I'm reading on here I should be facing a stall. Should I do another pwc or just dose up to 2 or 3 ppm?
This is exciting.. I never saw numbers like this when I did my fishless cycle on my other tanks.

 

[jlk]

The nitrification process slows @6.5 and completely stops at 6. If you redosed amm right now, nothing will happen. You will need to do a big water change (100%) to get your ph back up and re-establish your buffers. Then only dose your amm to @2ppm & see how things look tommorrow. If your ph starts to drop again, some cr coral added to your filter (in mesh bag/piece pantyhose) will help to stabilize things. Dont be surprised if it takes a few days for your amm to start dropping again- a ph crash is a pretty big shock for your bb. It should return to its previous drops/levels fairly quickly so dont worry!

 

[Alkane]

Are you using baking soda to buffer the water? A higher kH may help stabilize the pH.

 

[Reygan2]

Are you using baking soda to buffer the water? A high kH may help stabilize the pH.

My goal is to not use anything to alter the water conditions. Ideally nature should take it's course..I guess I'll see. I'm going to do a massive pwc and check again tomorrow.


Okay...just did a 100% pwc. I'm going to dose ammo to 2ppm. Hmm, day 10.

 

[Alkane]

I hear ya. If you don't like the idea of adding baking soda to your tank then you could use some crushed coral in a filter bag (works the same way) to keep you pH more stable during the cycle then remove it once you get things going. I guess 100% water changes may work, but it will probably take you a lot longer.

Here's a similar thread.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/ph-during-fishless-cycle-171404.html

 

[Reygan2]

I hear ya. If you don't like the idea of adding baking soda to your tank then you could use some crushed coral in a filter bag (works the same way) to keep you pH more stable during the cycle then remove it once you get things going. I guess 100% water changes may work, but it will probably take you a lot longer.

Here's a similar thread.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/ph-during-fishless-cycle-171404.html

Thanks. I don't know where I'll find it, but it looks like I definately need some crushed coral. I've never had a ph reading so low.

 

[Alkane]

Your LFS should have it. Some people use it as a substrate.

There is some on Ebay for about $18 with shipping for 15 lbs. I'd would check your LFS first though.

 

[Reygan2]

Update: Major ph crash. The color is almost 6.0-less than 6.4 . My ph out of the tap in 7.6, and in my other cycled tank it is around 7 because of the dw.
My nitrites are dark purple (5.0)
My nitrates are nearly 160.
Ammonia- <.25
I did a pwc yesterday and then tested ph..it was through the roof. Now it's so low in less than 24 hrs? According to what I'm reading on here I should be facing a stall. Should I do another pwc or just dose up to 2 or 3 ppm?
This is exciting.. I never saw numbers like this when I did my fishless cycle on my other tanks.

OOPs...I meant to say that I never saw numbers like this when I did my fishIN cycle.

 

[Reygan2]

I did an 80% pwc a little while ago because my trItes were off the chart again. Tested again and they are still between 2 and 5, hard to match the purple shade. My ph was 6.4, and now after the pwc it's 6.8...which I don't get because it's 7.6 out of the tap.
Nitrates are around 80, and ammo is .50. I don't live anywhere near a lfs, so I can't get to any CC until the weekend.
Any recommendations until then? Could I still cycle without having to do daily pwc's to keep my ph up?

 

[boadams87]

I did an 80% pwc a little while ago because my trItes were off the chart again. Tested again and they are still between 2 and 5, hard to match the purple shade. My ph was 6.4, and now after the pwc it's 6.8...which I don't get because it's 7.6 out of the tap.
Nitrates are around 80, and ammo is .50. I don't live anywhere near a lfs, so I can't get to any CC until the weekend.
Any recommendations until then? Could I still cycle without having to do daily pwc's to keep my ph up?

Dang urs sounds identical to mine. My ph from tap is 7.4 and an hr after 80% wc its 6.0. But I don't have any nitrites!

 

[jlk]

Have you done a ph test on your tap? You will need to set some tap aside for 24hrs preferably with an airstone or bubbler so it can gas out (or give it a good stir every so often). Once it gasses out, you will know what your true ph actually is. The issue here with cycling is once your ph drops to @6.5, your cycle slows down. At 6.0ph, the nitrification process (cycle) stops completely. If its at 6.8 right now, lets skip the amm dosing the next few days until you are able to get some cr coral to stabilize things. Your bb wont starve to death & less conversion will hopefully keep your ph from dropping further. Your other option is to continue dosing amm & keep up on your water changes anytime the ph drops to 6.5. This will be up to you on how you want to approach this in the interim.

 

[Reygan2]

Have you done a ph test on your tap? You will need to set some tap aside for 24hrs preferably with an airstone or bubbler so it can gas out (or give it a good stir every so often). Once it gasses out, you will know what your true ph actually is. The issue here with cycling is once your ph drops to @6.5, your cycle slows down. At 6.0ph, the nitrification process (cycle) stops completely. If its at 6.8 right now, lets skip the amm dosing the next few days until you are able to get some cr coral to stabilize things. Your bb wont starve to death & less conversion will hopefully keep your ph from dropping further. Your other option is to continue dosing amm & keep up on your water changes anytime the ph drops to 6.5. This will be up to you on how you want to approach this in the interim.

Thank you. I won't dose tonight, and I'll see how things look tomorrow. From what I understand the BB can go for a couple of days right?