companionship with firemouth cichlids?

[Jaybird]

I've just setup my new 90G tank and will be moving my other SA cichlids in (keyholes, checkerboards, and bolivians). I'm thinking about firemouth cichlids, but am not convinced that it will be a good mix.

I've read a lot of profiles for the fish that state that they would be fine with the keyholes. In their native habitat they would co-habitate with wild mollies and platys, so they should be docile enough for other SA cichlids.

I know that if they spawn it would be a different story, but they should have enough space in a 90G to have a little fit and everyone would still have enough space to hid/get-away.

Does anyone have any experience with mixing firemouths with other fish?

 

[severum mama]

I only have one firemouth (so spawning can't be the issue here), and it is anything but docile. Mine lives with a large severum and a medium-sized female convict, and it often takes chunks out of the severum's tail. The only reason it doesn't do this to the con is that she can fit in hiding spots where the FM can't. BTW, they live in a 55 gallon, so they each have plenty of room to claim territories. I really don't think it would be a good mix with the stock list you want. I've heard that keyholes are even more peaceful than Bolivians, so I think they would be in real trouble. Not sure about checkerboards, but if their temperament is anything like keyholes or Bolivians, I'd have to say it wouldn't work. As always, YMMV, but I sure wouldn't try it.

 

[Menagerie]

In their native habitat they would co-habitate with wild mollies and platys, so they should be docile enough for other SA cichlids.

Their native habitat is larger than 90 gallons and you have some very peaceful cichlids right now. If you want to go bigger and showier, look outside the cichlid family. Many members enjoy rainbows with other peaceful fish.

 

[Jaybird]

Hmm, I just figured that they wouldn't be as aggressive as convicts or oscars. Perhaps the chasing of the convict is because the firemouth was put in with other aggressive fish.

Are their any nice mid-sized cichlids that would be adaptable to this setup?

 

[BrianNY]

IMO both Severum and Festivum would be a good mix.

 

[severum mama]

My severum used to live with 4 Bolivian rams and they did fine together. The severum didn't pay much attention to them at all. The only times I've had aggression issues with the severum is when I've kept cichlids of similar size with him, like the firemouth. I also kept a blood parrot with him for a while but the severum beat the parrot up so badly that I had to move the parrot to a different tank. Again, they got along fine until the parrot grew to a similar size.

Perhaps the chasing of the convict is because the firemouth was put in with other aggressive fish.

I don't think so. The severum generally isn't the aggressor when those two fight, and doesn't really go out of his way to be aggressive. The convict was introduced to the tank before the firemouth, and was still pretty small when the FM was added. I think my FM is just especially ill-tempered. Maybe the fact that it is wild-caught has something to do with that.

 

[Jaybird]

I've read a lot about FM aggression being mostly gill flaring, but I guess if it felt theatened it would be able to defend itself.

My bolivians bicker between themselves all the time, but never to any real damage. They always have a place to run away to. They even take shots at the keyholes every once in a while, but the keyholes are fast and agile.

A little aggression in the tank isn't a terrible thing, I just wouldn't want the other cichlids beaten to death. There are tonnes of caves and plants to hide in if necessary.

Wouldn't the severum treat my tank's plants like an all-you-can eat salad bar?

 

[severum mama]

Wouldn't the severum treat my tank's plants like an all-you-can eat salad bar?

More than likely. I'm trying some anubias and java fern with my severum, con, and FM now. It's been in there since yesterday, and so far so good. If you have tough plants like those it might work out, but other than that a severum would have a feast with your plants.

I've read a lot about FM aggression being mostly gill flaring, but I guess if it felt theatened it would be able to defend itself.

My FM does that gill flaring thing all the time, and occasionally bites a chunk out of the severum's tail. If it gets any worse I might have to think about either giving him up or setting up yet another tank. That FM is by far the most aggressive fish I have (of course, I don't keep any Africans, lol).

 

[Jaybird]

Well, to test the conflicting advice that I have read about firemouths (from being shy to aggressive, OK with other community-type fish to insane killers), I decided to put one in my tank.

The results so far: He doesn't care about the keyhole cichlids, checkerboard cichlids, or mollies. He does notice my bolivian rams. The dominant ram keeps giving him a beat down. On the plus side, the colours on the bolivian have just bloomed!

It's funny to watch, because the bolivian will chase the firemouth away and then later the firemouth will try to sneak up on the bolivian from behind.

I'm not too worried about the firemouth as the bolivian just gives him a little peck on the face but doesn't even bother to give chase.

On a separate note, can anyone give me a heads-up on the sex of firemouth. I think male, because of the long filament on the dorsal fin, but am not sure. Until I know, I can't really name him/her. So I am stuck between Ragnar and Xena until then

Oh, and Severum Mama, they had some beautiful gold severums at Big Als. I have never seen one until today. They are a beautiful, beautiful fish. I still haven't seen the normal severum, except in pictures, but the gold variation was stunning.

 

[severum mama]

Well, I wish you the best of luck with your FM, but when he reaches sexual maturity, I think all hell will break loose in your tank. Hope that doesn't happen though.

 

[Jaybird]

So, you think it's a male?

 

[severum mama]

Oh, I don't know, I was just going on what you said.

 

[Jaybird]

He is very interesting to watch. The keyhole cichlids don't pay him any mind and he doesn't even notice that they are there.

If he really is a male, then I would like to find him a female. That should help keep any aggressive tendencies down. I may be in for a handful if I ever do find a mate and they end up spawning. Still, I think that the keyholes could also be a handful if they spawned. It's always the quiet ones, you know

 

[severum mama]

I would think that adding a female would make things a lot worse for the other fish in your tank. Either that, or the newcomer would get beaten up.

 

[Jaybird]

How would adding a female make things worse? I would understand some additional aggression if they laid eggs or had a brood, but that would be confined to the area they were protecting.

Even now, a day later, there is even less aggression in the tank. Perhaps the first day was just them testing each other. Right now the firemouths couldn't care about anyone else in the tank, and neither does anyone else. No gill flaring, no chasing....nothing. There is a bit of pushing at feeding time, but nothing worse than what my sailfin molly ever did.

It seems that these guys might have gotten a worse reputation than they deserved.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Just so you know, I'm not sure how firemouths would be, but my Bolivians, when they have eggs and fry, they protect an area about 12-14 inches from the eggs and fry (A 2 foot span of tank real estate). Then there's some fish they will let a little closer, up to about 6 inches, such as my cories and red tail shark. But Bolivians aren't violent in their protective duties, just gives a gentle nudge, lol. And they are fast too.

 

[Jaybird]

My bolivians are pretty fast too. Now, with the firemouths in the tank, you can really tell which bolivian is the dominant one. His colours have really come out, even the orange in his dorsal fin. I had always hoped that I had been lucky enough to get a male/female combo, but no luck. Both have now started to develop the long filaments on the top and bottom of their tail fin.

I don't think I have to worry about the firemouths right now as it seems that I have three males.

 

[maxwell1295]

My bolivians are pretty fast too. Now, with the firemouths in the tank, you can really tell which bolivian is the dominant one. His colours have really come out, even the orange in his dorsal fin. I had always hoped that I had been lucky enough to get a male/female combo, but no luck. Both have now started to develop the long filaments on the top and bottom of their tail fin.

The long spines on the dorsal fins don't mean much when sexing Bolivians. I'm not sure there is a clearcut way to identify them other than actuallu seeing them spawn.

BTW, I have found Bolivian Rams to be amongst the most peaceful fish I have in any of my tanks. They are not aggressive towards anything...except other Bolivians. They will retaliate if another fish attacks them. I had a male Dwarf Gourami find that out the hard way. He got his butt kicked pretty badly after trying to bully a Bolivian at feeding time.

 

[severum mama]

Even now, a day later, there is even less aggression in the tank. Perhaps the first day was just them testing each other. Right now the firemouths couldn't care about anyone else in the tank, and neither does anyone else. No gill flaring, no chasing....nothing. There is a bit of pushing at feeding time, but nothing worse than what my sailfin molly ever did.

It seems that these guys might have gotten a worse reputation than they deserved.

Yes, but my point is that your firemouth is tiny. I really think it will get a lot more ill-tempered with age. Mine is an adult and by far the meanest fish I have ever kept.

 

[Jaybird]

My bolivians are normally peaceful as well, but they do give each other and the keyholes a push every once in a while.

I've heard about the dorsal spines on Bolivians being used to sex them, but they never sit still long enough to be sure.