Humidity
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mr_X
Aquarium Advice Addict
The less humid the basement, the more evap you will see. Just watch for mold on surfaces in the basement.
Phranque
Aquarium Advice Addict
There is no ideal ambient humidity as far as what is good for your tanks..... As Mr_X said, the only thing you'll notice is that if your humidity is low, you will use more top-off water since the drier air will pull more water from your tanks.
Now, if you've got a basement literally "full" of fish tanks, that will generate a lot of humidity.... anything above 70% for an extended period of time will likely generate mold in your house. But, again, that would take a LOT of fish tanks to maintain that kind of humidity. If that's what your question's pertaining to, and you're concerned about it, get yourself a digital hygrometer (these are what I keep in my cigar humidors) to monitor your humidity. If it is above 70%, you'll probably want to consider some type of dehumidification.
Caliber IV Digital Hygrometer Thermometer Item 1132 | eBay
Now, if you've got a basement literally "full" of fish tanks, that will generate a lot of humidity.... anything above 70% for an extended period of time will likely generate mold in your house. But, again, that would take a LOT of fish tanks to maintain that kind of humidity. If that's what your question's pertaining to, and you're concerned about it, get yourself a digital hygrometer (these are what I keep in my cigar humidors) to monitor your humidity. If it is above 70%, you'll probably want to consider some type of dehumidification.
Caliber IV Digital Hygrometer Thermometer Item 1132 | eBay
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We advise our clients (I am a finish carpenter, and general contractor) to never let their basements get anywhere near 70rh, and prefer under 50rh. At 70, mold isn't likely, it's guaranteed. It can also greatly increase the deterioration rate of your home when your humidity is this high. Tanks in a subter setting should have space between them and the walls or other surfaces, and good, fresh airflow is also an extremely good idea to help the health of the home and it's occupants
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J.Mcpeak
Aquarium Advice Addict
I use a kair heat recovery extractor fan in my fish house. Perfect humidity controller. Absolutely excellent piece of behind the scenes equipment. Environmentally friendly low running cost unit but initially not cheap. Well, I don't think it was cheap! You may be loaded!
All you need is one big (relative to the room) uncovered tank with a different ambient temp to get wet walls. Circulation/extraction is the key.
Im not a carpenter but I do build things. (General/decorating)
All you need is one big (relative to the room) uncovered tank with a different ambient temp to get wet walls. Circulation/extraction is the key.
Im not a carpenter but I do build things. (General/decorating)
mr_X
Aquarium Advice Addict
I would suggest a small fan in the basement window changing out air 24/7 if you are having problems like noticeable mold. You can buy a fan cheap from home depot. I used a 6" in line booster fan and built a mount for it out of plywood. If you use a dehumidifier, you will be spinning wheels, meaning as you pull out the humidity in the room, you'll be putting that much more water in the top off, then pulling it out of the room, then adding again, and so on and so on....
Replacing the air was the only thing that seemed to work for me.
Replacing the air was the only thing that seemed to work for me.
Mr X makes a great suggestion, bringing in make up air can be a great help. Also, he is dead on about the dehumidifier, that's just a never ending circle of evap / collect. Fresh air is key
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When I fired up my new dehumidifier . The panel said it was at 80.. After one night I have been holding at 50.. I read 2 things . Let me know what you guys think... I read that opening a door or bringing air in.. Will be a never ending battle with new humidity... And second.. I read that dehumidifier water is pure 0 tds... Can you just put that right back into the sump??
J.Mcpeak
Aquarium Advice Addict
Humidity fan, benefits.
The key thing you missed is heat recovery.
Yes it takes the humidity out protecting the building. A circle I'm happy to run, I'm always changing water anyway so it's no extra task. What it also does is take the heat from the extracted air and warm the fresh air from the outside cutting down on heating costs. The fan only operates when humidity reaches a certain level so I can find a happy balance. It runs full time circulation with an over run which is set by humidity control or manual over ride while continually re heating fresh air. Perfect as most of the year where I am air temp is below my tank temp.
What you are doing using a regular fan is dumping hot moist air out the window then paying to heat your tanks which must be refilled anyway as the moisture laden air has been sucked out. That's a circle I'd prefer not to run. Water is cheaper than electricity by a mile, if you prefer to dump heat and water that's your choice. As you've no control over humidity loss you lose more water because you can't control it. While the walls will be drier so will the air.
Sorry where did I go wrong?
The key thing you missed is heat recovery.
Yes it takes the humidity out protecting the building. A circle I'm happy to run, I'm always changing water anyway so it's no extra task. What it also does is take the heat from the extracted air and warm the fresh air from the outside cutting down on heating costs. The fan only operates when humidity reaches a certain level so I can find a happy balance. It runs full time circulation with an over run which is set by humidity control or manual over ride while continually re heating fresh air. Perfect as most of the year where I am air temp is below my tank temp.
What you are doing using a regular fan is dumping hot moist air out the window then paying to heat your tanks which must be refilled anyway as the moisture laden air has been sucked out. That's a circle I'd prefer not to run. Water is cheaper than electricity by a mile, if you prefer to dump heat and water that's your choice. As you've no control over humidity loss you lose more water because you can't control it. While the walls will be drier so will the air.
Sorry where did I go wrong?
mr_X
Aquarium Advice Addict
In my case, the air from outside was a better option than the extremely humid air inside. I had mold problems and before the fan pulling fresh air, I had puddles of water on all the window sills throughout the house, even a floor away. After the fan, which was only 30 watts anyway, the water disappeared. I also should mention, I was pulling air, not pushing it, so I was removing air from the basement and it was being replaced by air coming from the rest of the house.
J.Mcpeak
Aquarium Advice Addict
Food for thought.
Hello sir,
Ok, my situation is different. The building is isolated from the main house and is independently heated. I did a bit of research into fans.
A basic sucker/blower fan is the least economical and the worst for heat preservation as it has no physical defence against the wind.
A basic sucker/blower with mechanical actuators to close the vent is the next best thing.
The problems with both types of fan, they are not geared towards anything you need, humidity control (that's partly why you get puddles) and heat loss, key items for a tropical environment. Maybe in a house you may not consider the heating as it is already on but I needed to heat the room and preserve that heat. I plan to use an ordinary fan with flaps, wired up to a thermostat (T-) to prevent overheating during late summer, not sure if I need it yet? It's rained all year!
Next up is a humidistat based fan, same thing applies, the type with a mechanical actuator is better. These in either configuration are overall a better choice as they only work when they need to, a level that you can set and adjust.
The only problem with these humidistat controlled fans is heat loss. It is better than regular fans as it isn't working full time. At least you have some control.
For all fan types the mechanical flap type is better for heat preservation, except those fans with re-circ. In all fan types heat loss is a real problem. You heat your tanks, they are capable of keeping an unheated room at or around 17C in deepest darkest winter, ok that room is damp, but warm. Add a fan, you get numbers around 10C room temp. Now with a heater you get whatever air temp you choose. 22c is what I heat the room to. It's cheaper than individual tank heating, it also offers more stability to the tank temps, from 22c each tank is lifted to its correct T by normal in tank heaters. It's very cheap this way. Now to preserve that heat?
I'm not saying you are wrong. The transport of moist air from the room to the outside is the goal, any fan will do. I think there are much more economical ways of doing it. The running cost of the heat recovery unit is similar to an ordinary fan, it just saves you money every second of the day, eventually it will pay for itself.
If the room air temp is considerably colder than the moisture content of the air (assuming it's tank water) you get cold strike, that's where the moisture sticks to cold surfaces normally externally fixed metal/glass and possibly plastic. This is apparent on windows during winter, closed up bedroom windows spring to mind, and copper pipes in the bathroom.
The heat recovery fan I use runs 9watts full time and 46w on boost mode.
Kair Heat Recovery Room Ventilator K-HRV150 | Kair Ventilation
https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891884@N04/10427173493/
The boost mode is dependent on R/h & T. It's on sometimes but mostly it runs at trickle speed. Also the night mode keeps it from switching on during darkness/lights off, handy for keeping the neighbours happy, whisper quiet perfection. The difference this thing makes is unquestionable.
(Based on my tests
)
Hello sir,
Ok, my situation is different. The building is isolated from the main house and is independently heated. I did a bit of research into fans.
A basic sucker/blower fan is the least economical and the worst for heat preservation as it has no physical defence against the wind.
A basic sucker/blower with mechanical actuators to close the vent is the next best thing.
The problems with both types of fan, they are not geared towards anything you need, humidity control (that's partly why you get puddles) and heat loss, key items for a tropical environment. Maybe in a house you may not consider the heating as it is already on but I needed to heat the room and preserve that heat. I plan to use an ordinary fan with flaps, wired up to a thermostat (T-) to prevent overheating during late summer, not sure if I need it yet? It's rained all year!
Next up is a humidistat based fan, same thing applies, the type with a mechanical actuator is better. These in either configuration are overall a better choice as they only work when they need to, a level that you can set and adjust.
The only problem with these humidistat controlled fans is heat loss. It is better than regular fans as it isn't working full time. At least you have some control.
For all fan types the mechanical flap type is better for heat preservation, except those fans with re-circ. In all fan types heat loss is a real problem. You heat your tanks, they are capable of keeping an unheated room at or around 17C in deepest darkest winter, ok that room is damp, but warm. Add a fan, you get numbers around 10C room temp. Now with a heater you get whatever air temp you choose. 22c is what I heat the room to. It's cheaper than individual tank heating, it also offers more stability to the tank temps, from 22c each tank is lifted to its correct T by normal in tank heaters. It's very cheap this way. Now to preserve that heat?
I'm not saying you are wrong. The transport of moist air from the room to the outside is the goal, any fan will do. I think there are much more economical ways of doing it. The running cost of the heat recovery unit is similar to an ordinary fan, it just saves you money every second of the day, eventually it will pay for itself.
If the room air temp is considerably colder than the moisture content of the air (assuming it's tank water) you get cold strike, that's where the moisture sticks to cold surfaces normally externally fixed metal/glass and possibly plastic. This is apparent on windows during winter, closed up bedroom windows spring to mind, and copper pipes in the bathroom.
The heat recovery fan I use runs 9watts full time and 46w on boost mode.
Kair Heat Recovery Room Ventilator K-HRV150 | Kair Ventilation
https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891884@N04/10427173493/
The boost mode is dependent on R/h & T. It's on sometimes but mostly it runs at trickle speed. Also the night mode keeps it from switching on during darkness/lights off, handy for keeping the neighbours happy, whisper quiet perfection. The difference this thing makes is unquestionable.
(Based on my tests
)Not a hundred percent sure on why the tropical setting came into play, but in one, would heat really be that much a factor? And as X said, fresh air exchange is a very big factor in the home. The device you linked to is, if I read it right, just an air exchange (fresh air from outside) that reclaims heat while removing humidity (a very efficient, high tech, dehumidifier ) as rh dropout occurs, tanks will wick moisture into the air, replacing what it takes out, creating a non ending cycle. Why not just use something like the GE hybrid, at least the small sum of kwh it will use (about the same as a dehumidifier ) gives you a heat pump, removes humidity, and produces hot water
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Sent from my Z750C using Aquarium Advice mobile app
J.Mcpeak
Aquarium Advice Addict
I really did my homework on this!
My fish are tropical fish, if I lived in the tropics I'd have less issues such as these. Indeed you are correct.
The result and the reason it comes into play, the water in my tanks is tropically flavoured, if left unattended the room quickly takes on a tropical theme. Quite relevant really. Hot and humid, just like the tropics
heat is a factor because the closer I can keep the ambient temperature of my room to that of the tanks, the less I need to heat the tanks. Saving me money.
If I can skim just enough rh% from the atmosphere to achieve dry walls but leave the air sufficiently humid this will cut down the amount of evaporation that can physically occur. A fine balancing act which all combined reduces your evaporation and heating costs. You don't want too much fluctuation in temperature because you dew point is for ever changing, stability here is important, not critical but worth dealing with if possible.
What's the need for a heat pump? I have hot water in my house? For the little I need in the fish house a kettle will do or a short trip to the kitchen, plumbing hot water too was a little over cost. Why add features you don't need? Maybe I could use the hot water in a radiator? Or a nice cup of tea!
A regular fan removes rh as well, it is uncontrolled, that's all, the rh% changes to a greater degree with a regular fan actually exacerbating this wicking phenomenon. Now, hot air can hold more water vapour than cold air, when you quickly drop the temp by dumping out all of your warm air that water falls out of suspension and forms water droplets on things. That's your dew point fluctuation, a solid reason for ambient temperature stability.
This wicking you talk about applies with all fans, any fan will remove all aspects from the air from point a to point b. You can select fans that target your needs or you don't select fans that target your needs. In fact you don't even need a fan to bring about this never ending cycle that seems to be the source of great ammunition otherwise we wouldn't even be talking about fans and humidity!
Also I fully agree with circulation, it was never a cause for dispute, not that this is a dispute! (Another disclaimer right there!)
My fish are tropical fish, if I lived in the tropics I'd have less issues such as these. Indeed you are correct.
The result and the reason it comes into play, the water in my tanks is tropically flavoured, if left unattended the room quickly takes on a tropical theme. Quite relevant really. Hot and humid, just like the tropics
heat is a factor because the closer I can keep the ambient temperature of my room to that of the tanks, the less I need to heat the tanks. Saving me money.
If I can skim just enough rh% from the atmosphere to achieve dry walls but leave the air sufficiently humid this will cut down the amount of evaporation that can physically occur. A fine balancing act which all combined reduces your evaporation and heating costs. You don't want too much fluctuation in temperature because you dew point is for ever changing, stability here is important, not critical but worth dealing with if possible.
What's the need for a heat pump? I have hot water in my house? For the little I need in the fish house a kettle will do or a short trip to the kitchen, plumbing hot water too was a little over cost. Why add features you don't need? Maybe I could use the hot water in a radiator? Or a nice cup of tea!
A regular fan removes rh as well, it is uncontrolled, that's all, the rh% changes to a greater degree with a regular fan actually exacerbating this wicking phenomenon. Now, hot air can hold more water vapour than cold air, when you quickly drop the temp by dumping out all of your warm air that water falls out of suspension and forms water droplets on things. That's your dew point fluctuation, a solid reason for ambient temperature stability.
This wicking you talk about applies with all fans, any fan will remove all aspects from the air from point a to point b. You can select fans that target your needs or you don't select fans that target your needs. In fact you don't even need a fan to bring about this never ending cycle that seems to be the source of great ammunition otherwise we wouldn't even be talking about fans and humidity!
Also I fully agree with circulation, it was never a cause for dispute, not that this is a dispute! (Another disclaimer right there!)
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