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Old 06-04-2014, 07:30 PM   #11
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In my case, the air from outside was a better option than the extremely humid air inside. I had mold problems and before the fan pulling fresh air, I had puddles of water on all the window sills throughout the house, even a floor away. After the fan, which was only 30 watts anyway, the water disappeared. I also should mention, I was pulling air, not pushing it, so I was removing air from the basement and it was being replaced by air coming from the rest of the house.
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:22 AM   #12
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Food for thought.

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Originally Posted by mr_X View Post
In my case, the air from outside was a better option than the extremely humid air inside. I had mold problems and before the fan pulling fresh air, I had puddles of water on all the window sills throughout the house, even a floor away. After the fan, which was only 30 watts anyway, the water disappeared. I also should mention, I was pulling air, not pushing it, so I was removing air from the basement and it was being replaced by air coming from the rest of the house.
Hello sir,
Ok, my situation is different. The building is isolated from the main house and is independently heated. I did a bit of research into fans.

A basic sucker/blower fan is the least economical and the worst for heat preservation as it has no physical defence against the wind.
A basic sucker/blower with mechanical actuators to close the vent is the next best thing.

The problems with both types of fan, they are not geared towards anything you need, humidity control (that's partly why you get puddles) and heat loss, key items for a tropical environment. Maybe in a house you may not consider the heating as it is already on but I needed to heat the room and preserve that heat. I plan to use an ordinary fan with flaps, wired up to a thermostat (T-) to prevent overheating during late summer, not sure if I need it yet? It's rained all year!

Next up is a humidistat based fan, same thing applies, the type with a mechanical actuator is better. These in either configuration are overall a better choice as they only work when they need to, a level that you can set and adjust.

The only problem with these humidistat controlled fans is heat loss. It is better than regular fans as it isn't working full time. At least you have some control.

For all fan types the mechanical flap type is better for heat preservation, except those fans with re-circ. In all fan types heat loss is a real problem. You heat your tanks, they are capable of keeping an unheated room at or around 17C in deepest darkest winter, ok that room is damp, but warm. Add a fan, you get numbers around 10C room temp. Now with a heater you get whatever air temp you choose. 22c is what I heat the room to. It's cheaper than individual tank heating, it also offers more stability to the tank temps, from 22c each tank is lifted to its correct T by normal in tank heaters. It's very cheap this way. Now to preserve that heat?

I'm not saying you are wrong. The transport of moist air from the room to the outside is the goal, any fan will do. I think there are much more economical ways of doing it. The running cost of the heat recovery unit is similar to an ordinary fan, it just saves you money every second of the day, eventually it will pay for itself.
If the room air temp is considerably colder than the moisture content of the air (assuming it's tank water) you get cold strike, that's where the moisture sticks to cold surfaces normally externally fixed metal/glass and possibly plastic. This is apparent on windows during winter, closed up bedroom windows spring to mind, and copper pipes in the bathroom.

The heat recovery fan I use runs 9watts full time and 46w on boost mode.
Kair Heat Recovery Room Ventilator K-HRV150 | Kair Ventilation
https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891884@N04/10427173493/

The boost mode is dependent on R/h & T. It's on sometimes but mostly it runs at trickle speed. Also the night mode keeps it from switching on during darkness/lights off, handy for keeping the neighbours happy, whisper quiet perfection. The difference this thing makes is unquestionable.
(Based on my tests)
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:14 AM   #13
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Not a hundred percent sure on why the tropical setting came into play, but in one, would heat really be that much a factor? And as X said, fresh air exchange is a very big factor in the home. The device you linked to is, if I read it right, just an air exchange (fresh air from outside) that reclaims heat while removing humidity (a very efficient, high tech, dehumidifier ) as rh dropout occurs, tanks will wick moisture into the air, replacing what it takes out, creating a non ending cycle. Why not just use something like the GE hybrid, at least the small sum of kwh it will use (about the same as a dehumidifier ) gives you a heat pump, removes humidity, and produces hot water

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Old 06-05-2014, 11:13 AM   #14
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I really did my homework on this!

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Not a hundred percent sure on why the tropical setting came into play, but in one, would heat really be that much a factor? And as X said, fresh air exchange is a very big factor in the home. The device you linked to is, if I read it right, just an air exchange (fresh air from outside) that reclaims heat while removing humidity (a very efficient, high tech, dehumidifier ) as rh dropout occurs, tanks will wick moisture into the air, replacing what it takes out, creating a non ending cycle. Why not just use something like the GE hybrid, at least the small sum of kwh it will use (about the same as a dehumidifier ) gives you a heat pump, removes humidity, and produces hot water

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My fish are tropical fish, if I lived in the tropics I'd have less issues such as these. Indeed you are correct.
The result and the reason it comes into play, the water in my tanks is tropically flavoured, if left unattended the room quickly takes on a tropical theme. Quite relevant really. Hot and humid, just like the tropics
heat is a factor because the closer I can keep the ambient temperature of my room to that of the tanks, the less I need to heat the tanks. Saving me money.

If I can skim just enough rh% from the atmosphere to achieve dry walls but leave the air sufficiently humid this will cut down the amount of evaporation that can physically occur. A fine balancing act which all combined reduces your evaporation and heating costs. You don't want too much fluctuation in temperature because you dew point is for ever changing, stability here is important, not critical but worth dealing with if possible.

What's the need for a heat pump? I have hot water in my house? For the little I need in the fish house a kettle will do or a short trip to the kitchen, plumbing hot water too was a little over cost. Why add features you don't need? Maybe I could use the hot water in a radiator? Or a nice cup of tea!

A regular fan removes rh as well, it is uncontrolled, that's all, the rh% changes to a greater degree with a regular fan actually exacerbating this wicking phenomenon. Now, hot air can hold more water vapour than cold air, when you quickly drop the temp by dumping out all of your warm air that water falls out of suspension and forms water droplets on things. That's your dew point fluctuation, a solid reason for ambient temperature stability.

This wicking you talk about applies with all fans, any fan will remove all aspects from the air from point a to point b. You can select fans that target your needs or you don't select fans that target your needs. In fact you don't even need a fan to bring about this never ending cycle that seems to be the source of great ammunition otherwise we wouldn't even be talking about fans and humidity!



Also I fully agree with circulation, it was never a cause for dispute, not that this is a dispute! (Another disclaimer right there!)
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