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Old 08-05-2013, 10:44 PM   #31
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Lol it's a FOWLR tank I meant damsels not danios lol
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:46 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_X View Post
You cannot build a strong bacteria colony doing water changes during a cycle. You are quite mistaken.
The bacteria colony depends on the ammonia levels.
Live rock taken from the ocean and left in cargo containers for weeks at a time before you get it do not have beneficial bacteria on them. What they have is die off. The die off then rots and creates ammonia thus starting the cycle. Sad? Whats sad is people killing things for no sensible reason at all.
Fish-in Cycling: Step over into the dark side.

I think this article, even though it relates to FW, will show enough proof that you're argument is all but moot.

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I followed all these forums for a year before I got my tank. Mr. X knows his stuff. I believe everything he says. Some people will never learn. And will lose a lot of money and fish in the process.
If you believe everything he says then you are handicapping your own ability to learn more about the hobby.

JetaJockey is a well known and trusted member of this site and he had a guide to FISH-IN cycling featured on the home page of the site.

Give it a read before you bandwagon someone else's statements huh?
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:07 AM   #33
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But even that states there is a risk to fish ... I just don't see what damage a bit of patience has really to ensure your fish are safe and healthy, personally I'd rather not take chances. Also the whole point of the cycle is that you need all the elements for the nitrogen cycle in the tank for it to happen and to build the bacteria and the water changes are removing these from the tank to put in water without these elements so damaging to the cycle Just my opinion though.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:21 AM   #34
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But even that states there is a risk to fish ... I just don't see what damage a bit of patience has really to ensure your fish are safe and healthy, personally I'd rather not take chances. Also the whole point of the cycle is that you need all the elements for the nitrogen cycle in the tank for it to happen and to build the bacteria and the water changes are removing these from the tank to put in water without these elements so damaging to the cycle Just my opinion though.
There is a risk to the fish if you don't do it properly, but there is a risk if you do a fishless cycle incorrectly too!

You could add too many fish too quickly, causing a mini cycle that would wipe out sensitive stock (something fishless advocates always fail to mention)

I've cycled tanks with sensitive fish, I've never let the ammonia reach a toxic level, and the cycle hasn't been affected by water changes.

Fishless cycling is based on the premise of overkill. Dosing ammonia to a high level to (4ppm is extremely high) and waiting for bacteria to multiply to convert it.

Fish in cycling is just the opposite. It's a method that involves extreme care and attention, keeping the water column fresh with water changes (and if you have a planted tank, that's a necessity!)

I'm not saying fishless cycling is bad, I'm just saying FISH IN cycling is good too.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:08 AM   #35
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I think everyone has the right to an opinion, and that was a good article Scouser - the problem here is that the OP doesn't understand the nitrogen cycling process at all and has broken the number one fish-in rule, he is cycling with damsels which he does not intend to keep and why would you? They are mean and will be a nightmare to remove. Hopefully he reads your article to get some understanding of what he is doing so he can do it right...
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:40 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouser View Post
Fish-in Cycling: Step over into the dark side.

I think this article, even though it relates to FW, will show enough proof that you're argument is all but moot.
From that article:


Fishless cycling
Pro:
No animals potentially harmed in the making of this tank.
Biofilter built like a freight train.
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:02 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by mr_X View Post

From that article:

Fishless cycling
Pro:
No animals potentially harmed in the making of this tank.
Biofilter built like a freight train.
"POTENTIALLY"

Like any cycle, if you don't do it properly then you'll hurt/kill animals.

So far you haven't provided any information why FISH IN cycling is "cruel", as you put it.

All you've said is how it hurts fish unnecessarily. Which isn't true at all, the only way a fish would be harmed is if the cycle isn't done CORRECTLY!

So go and find me proof of a fish that has died when the cycle was performed correctly and safely and ill accept that you are right, until then stop saying a method, you don't fully understand, is cruel.
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:45 PM   #38
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Again people in posted this like 4 times as of now there's still nothing wrong with the fish they're fine and they're not mean to each other at all I don't see how they're mean they actually all swim together in like a school it's kinda weird
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:27 PM   #39
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Ammonia is poison, PERIOD. ANY detectable ammonia is toxic to livestock. There is no correct way you can ingest ammonia and it not hurt you. That's a fact.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:44 PM   #40
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Ammonia is poison, PERIOD. ANY detectable ammonia is toxic to livestock. There is no correct way you can ingest ammonia and it not hurt you. That's a fact.
"There is no correct way you can ingest ammonia and it not hurt you"

This snap is taken from a report carried out by the WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION.




Click image for larger version

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So that shows you that ingesting levels of ammonia is safe.

Now, if you want to continue this through PM we can.

I'd rather not take this off topic more than we have already.
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