New update on my tank

[Clownfishlover]

Since he had live rock for weeks before he got fish the tank probably had started to cycle already so the fish will be going through less of an ammonia spike IMO

 

[POLARBEAR0871]

That's what I was trying to tell people

 

[KPhilly]

Who knows man? If they die, they die. If they dont, they don't. I mean, that's a harsh prospective but true. Haha! When the cycle finishes, treat them like kings for surviving!

 

[POLARBEAR0871]

Lol defiantly

 

[Scouser]

Well, to cycle a tank is to introduce an ammonia source. With a cycle using fish, the fish make ammonia with their waste. This ammonia is poison to fish. I don't see how you can take care to not torture the fish seeing as they must swim in ammonia filled water.

It seems you're stuck in you way of thinking, it's sad that so many people see a method of cycling as cruel because they don't understand how to properly maintain safe levels.

With testing and water changes the ammonia/ nitrites will not reach a high level.

Fishless cycling is boring. That's the whole top and bottom of it.

People claim it's the best way to cycle a tank but it's not.

If you're using LR and LS then it's no different from using a seeded filter in a freshwater tank.

A light stocking and dedicated monitoring of the water quality is a lot better than staring at an empty tank for a month or so.

 

[POLARBEAR0871]

I've been looking at An empty tank for bout 3 weeks with no fish

 

[mr_X]

It seems you're stuck in you way of thinking, it's sad that so many people see a method of cycling as cruel because they don't understand how to properly maintain safe levels.

With testing and water changes the ammonia/ nitrites will not reach a high level.

Fishless cycling is boring. That's the whole top and bottom of it.

People claim it's the best way to cycle a tank but it's not.

If you're using LR and LS then it's no different from using a seeded filter in a freshwater tank.

A light stocking and dedicated monitoring of the water quality is a lot better than staring at an empty tank for a month or so.

You cannot build a strong bacteria colony doing water changes during a cycle. You are quite mistaken.
The bacteria colony depends on the ammonia levels.
Live rock taken from the ocean and left in cargo containers for weeks at a time before you get it do not have beneficial bacteria on them. What they have is die off. The die off then rots and creates ammonia thus starting the cycle. Sad? Whats sad is people killing things for no sensible reason at all.

 

[Codyphoto]

I followed all these forums for a year before I got my tank. Mr. X knows his stuff. I believe everything he says. Some people will never learn. And will lose a lot of money and fish in the process.

 

[POLARBEAR0871]

Ok I don't understand what he told me

 

[HN1]

There are multiple ways of achieving the same ends. If done correctly they can all be done successfully and responsibly. That's kinda a neat thing about this hobby. I'm a bit unclear on whether this is a SW or FW tank. Sorry if I missed the clarification, but I saw danios mentioned and now a discussion of LR.

Check out the articles section for information either way.

 

[POLARBEAR0871]

Lol it's a FOWLR tank I meant damsels not danios lol

 

[Scouser]

You cannot build a strong bacteria colony doing water changes during a cycle. You are quite mistaken.
The bacteria colony depends on the ammonia levels.
Live rock taken from the ocean and left in cargo containers for weeks at a time before you get it do not have beneficial bacteria on them. What they have is die off. The die off then rots and creates ammonia thus starting the cycle. Sad? Whats sad is people killing things for no sensible reason at all.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/fish-in-cycling-step-over-into-the-dark-side-176446.html

I think this article, even though it relates to FW, will show enough proof that you're argument is all but moot.

I followed all these forums for a year before I got my tank. Mr. X knows his stuff. I believe everything he says. Some people will never learn. And will lose a lot of money and fish in the process.

If you believe everything he says then you are handicapping your own ability to learn more about the hobby.

JetaJockey is a well known and trusted member of this site and he had a guide to FISH-IN cycling featured on the home page of the site.

Give it a read before you bandwagon someone else's statements huh?

 

[woody390]

But even that states there is a risk to fish ... I just don't see what damage a bit of patience has really to ensure your fish are safe and healthy, personally I'd rather not take chances. Also the whole point of the cycle is that you need all the elements for the nitrogen cycle in the tank for it to happen and to build the bacteria and the water changes are removing these from the tank to put in water without these elements so damaging to the cycle Just my opinion though.

 

[Scouser]

But even that states there is a risk to fish ... I just don't see what damage a bit of patience has really to ensure your fish are safe and healthy, personally I'd rather not take chances. Also the whole point of the cycle is that you need all the elements for the nitrogen cycle in the tank for it to happen and to build the bacteria and the water changes are removing these from the tank to put in water without these elements so damaging to the cycle Just my opinion though.

There is a risk to the fish if you don't do it properly, but there is a risk if you do a fishless cycle incorrectly too!

You could add too many fish too quickly, causing a mini cycle that would wipe out sensitive stock (something fishless advocates always fail to mention)

I've cycled tanks with sensitive fish, I've never let the ammonia reach a toxic level, and the cycle hasn't been affected by water changes.

Fishless cycling is based on the premise of overkill. Dosing ammonia to a high level to (4ppm is extremely high) and waiting for bacteria to multiply to convert it.

Fish in cycling is just the opposite. It's a method that involves extreme care and attention, keeping the water column fresh with water changes (and if you have a planted tank, that's a necessity!)

I'm not saying fishless cycling is bad, I'm just saying FISH IN cycling is good too.

 

[Bectan01]

I think everyone has the right to an opinion, and that was a good article Scouser - the problem here is that the OP doesn't understand the nitrogen cycling process at all and has broken the number one fish-in rule, he is cycling with damsels which he does not intend to keep and why would you? They are mean and will be a nightmare to remove. Hopefully he reads your article to get some understanding of what he is doing so he can do it right...

 

[mr_X]

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/fish-in-cycling-step-over-into-the-dark-side-176446.html

I think this article, even though it relates to FW, will show enough proof that you're argument is all but moot.

From that article:


Fishless cycling
Pro:
No animals potentially harmed in the making of this tank.
Biofilter built like a freight train.

 

[Scouser]

From that article:

Fishless cycling
Pro:
No animals potentially harmed in the making of this tank.
Biofilter built like a freight train.

"POTENTIALLY"

Like any cycle, if you don't do it properly then you'll hurt/kill animals.

So far you haven't provided any information why FISH IN cycling is "cruel", as you put it.

All you've said is how it hurts fish unnecessarily. Which isn't true at all, the only way a fish would be harmed is if the cycle isn't done CORRECTLY!

So go and find me proof of a fish that has died when the cycle was performed correctly and safely and ill accept that you are right, until then stop saying a method, you don't fully understand, is cruel.

 

[POLARBEAR0871]

Again people in posted this like 4 times as of now there's still nothing wrong with the fish they're fine and they're not mean to each other at all I don't see how they're mean they actually all swim together in like a school it's kinda weird

 

[mr_X]

Ammonia is poison, PERIOD. ANY detectable ammonia is toxic to livestock. There is no correct way you can ingest ammonia and it not hurt you. That's a fact.

 

[Scouser]

Ammonia is poison, PERIOD. ANY detectable ammonia is toxic to livestock. There is no correct way you can ingest ammonia and it not hurt you. That's a fact.

"There is no correct way you can ingest ammonia and it not hurt you"

This snap is taken from a report carried out by the WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION.






So that shows you that ingesting levels of ammonia is safe.

Now, if you want to continue this through PM we can.

I'd rather not take this off topic more than we have already.