Goldfish and Catfish?

[DragonFish71]

Oh, you know what happened? Stupid me didn't see the area that said "Show All Albums," so I wasn't seeing all of them!

Wow -- why and how do you guys keep so many tanks?! It's hard keeping on top of one 60 gallon for me...where did you even find the room??

it's easy for me to keep up with. Mr.DF helps me with the heavy stuff, or stuff I can't reach, but other than that I've made a schedule for cleaning. We have a raised ranch style house with a full finished basement. We have tanks upstairs and downstairs.

As for why. Well, it's kind of like my way to unwind after a day at work. I relax by watching the fish or by working on a tank. I look forward to coming home and spending time with him, the dogs and our fishie friends.

 

[DragonFish71]

What is a River tank?

It's a tank that has a uni-directional flow, like a river. We'll be making a special filter system for it then stocking it with cooler water fish that like the higher currents.

 

[Osage_Winter]

it's easy for me to keep up with. Mr.DF helps me with the heavy stuff, or stuff I can't reach, but other than that I've made a schedule for cleaning. We have a raised ranch style house with a full finished basement. We have tanks upstairs and downstairs.

As for why. Well, it's kind of like my way to unwind after a day at work. I relax by watching the fish or by working on a tank. I look forward to coming home and spending time with him, the dogs and our fishie friends.

I applaud you for your efforts indeed; it just seems like when there are multiple tanks in multiple layouts like that, it becomes more of like a pet store than an aquarium for home use!

 

[RaptorBro]

is it just me or all ur POST have alot of hits lmao

 

[DragonFish71]

I applaud you for your efforts indeed; it just seems like when there are multiple tanks in multiple layouts like that, it becomes more of like a pet store than an aquarium for home use!

We do sell any fry that happen to come our way, like the firemouths. The pair we have happen to be a very prolific spawning pair *lol* About every other month, around the 20th, they spawn. Our LFS will take them for store trade (like a kid in a candy store ) They like knowing we don't dose them on hormones, and that our water is the same as theirs. Plus it saves them shipping costs to order from a supplier.


But, other than that, they are purely for our relaxation. Today I'm home sick and I've been curled up in front of the big tanks in the basement.

 

[Osage_Winter]

is it just me or all ur POST have alot of hits lmao

I suppose so.

What part of NY are you in? I hail from Long Isle...but don't live there anymore.

 

[Osage_Winter]

We do sell any fry that happen to come our way, like the firemouths. The pair we have happen to be a very prolific spawning pair *lol* About every other month, around the 20th, they spawn. Our LFS will take them for store trade (like a kid in a candy store ) They like knowing we don't dose them on hormones, and that our water is the same as theirs. Plus it saves them shipping costs to order from a supplier.

Wow...that's dedication to a hobby.

But, other than that, they are purely for our relaxation. Today I'm home sick and I've been curled up in front of the big tanks in the basement.

I hear ya. I love relaxing in front of our goldfish tank except the water is never crystal clear.....

Hope you feel better.

 

[taylorodw]

I would actually advise against keeping cory catfish with goldfish. I hate to be the bearer of bad news.

Cory cats are small, and goldfish are quite large omnivores. Fish are generally called "opportunistic" - they'll eat anything they think is edible, if it fits in their mouths. So while the goldies may not "hunt" the cories, they will eat them given the chance, because the cories fit in their mouths.

This is, of course, dangerous for the cories, but also very dangerous for the goldfish if the cory gets lodged in the mouth or throat.

 

[Wy Renegade]

You might consider stocking with some channel catfish fry if you could find them; they would handle the cooler temp and grow in size along with the goldfish. Be aware however that catfish, like any fish are opportunistic, and larger ones can be quite predacious. Little excites a classroom full of teenagers more than watching a bullhead swim up from the bottom and start swallowing feeder goldfish left and right.

It's a tank that has a uni-directional flow, like a river. We'll be making a special filter system for it then stocking it with cooler water fish that like the higher currents.

I did a river system with the plastic backgrounds for awhile. It was kind of neat, but difficult to keep clean of algae growth. I wouldn't do one with the plastic again, but have considered doing one with a spray foam/rock wall to create the pool divisions and allow for plantings. I'll look forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[Osage_Winter]

I'm just lost with all the suggestions and opinions I'm getting about what catfish can go with goldies or not; some say certain species can work, others say they can't...some say they will be eaten by the goldies while others say they will eat the goldies...

At this point, I think I am just going to stay with no cats.

 

[taylorodw]

Osage, I feel your pain. If you approach fishkeeping in broad topics - like "Goldfish and catfish?" - you will get the full spectrum of answers. You'll get people saying "yes it's fine!" when they have one cat fish in mind, while others will say "No" with some catfish in mind.

Personally, I have never forayed into the cold water stuff, or catfish - but IMO you would get better advice (and feel less frustrated!) if you ask about specific species. Catfish is just too broad to give a definitive answer.

Are there any species you're interested in?

 

[Osage_Winter]

Well, I like the Pictus species, but this topic had nothing to do really with which species I "like" or "prefer;" I just want to know which actually can mix in the same tank/biosystem as fancy goldfish...

 

[Wy Renegade]

I don't really know much about the different groupings of goldfish, so let me ask this. How is a fancytail goldfish different than the common goldfish? Is it like the fancytail guppies where it is simply a mutation that resulted in a more colorful tail (in otherwords their the same species, just different variations of the species) or is it more like the gobies were they are all different in their needs and requirements because they are different species?

 

[Osage_Winter]

I don't think there would be a major difference within the context of what we're discussing; they're both coldwater species which can withstand wildly varying fluxuations in water temperature -- so we need to go on that premise and figure out which cat would go in these kinds of waters, if any can at all...

 

[Wy Renegade]

I don't think there would be a major difference within the context of what we're discussing; they're both coldwater species which can withstand wildly varying fluxuations in water temperature -- so we need to go on that premise and figure out which cat would go in these kinds of waters, if any can at all...

Ok, fair enough. First of all lets clarify the coldwater species part, if goldfish are goldfish, they are not a coldwater species. While goldfish will tolerate cold temperatures (some people here leave them out over the winter in the horse trough or pond all winter long), they are not truly a coldwater species like trout, or salmon, or arctic grayling. No goldfish or catfish are found in cold or arctic mountain waters to my knowledge. So what you're looking for is a catfish species that will tolerate colder temperatures.

Second, lets talk size; goldfish get big. Many people don't get that - your common feeder goldfish for example, will grow to over 18" in the proper environment, and I assume therefore that your fancytail goldfish will as well. So you also need a catfish species that will grow in size along with your goldfish.

Third, lets talk purpose; you stated that you wanted some fish to clean up the gunk on the bottom and possiblely the glass of your aquarium. The only glass cleaning catfish to my knowledge is a pleco. The common pleco will grow to size with your catfish (provided they don't get too huge, which they shouldn't in your 60gal aquarium), and I have kept plecos in a unheated tank - although I don't know that that is necessarily recommended (as they are more tropical). And you do realize that goldfish themselves are a bottom feeder right? If you want them to help clean up the gunk, minimize feeding or feed shrimp pellets rather than flake food. Part of why goldfish tanks are seldom crystal clear is because the goldfish are stirring around in the substrate. Its part of why goldfish and trout can't coexist in the same pond.

Keep in mind that most catfish you see for sale in a pet store are going to be like most of the fish - i.e. tropical. If you want to get something more tolerant of colder temperatures that will grow in size with your goldfish, you'll probably need to think outside the box (i.e. my recommendation of a channel catfish, which you're not to likely to see for sale in many petstores any more - at one time albino Channel cats were fairly easy to get).

And lastly, identify for us what temp. you plan on keeping your tank around. When you say coldwater, I picture my native trout tank that has a chiller on it. I presume from reading through some of your threads and posts that that isn't really what you intend. But maybe you're thinking unheated or minimal temp. like 72 (FYI, some research indicates that goldfish actually do best in tanks that are allowed to experience normal seasonal-like fluctuations in temperature).

There are lots of different ways to do the aquarium thing as Taylor said, so decide on some of the specifics, then go from there.

Hope that helps.

 

[Osage_Winter]

Ok, fair enough. First of all lets clarify the coldwater species part, if goldfish are goldfish, they are not a coldwater species. While goldfish will tolerate cold temperatures (some people here leave them out over the winter in the horse trough or pond all winter long), they are not truly a coldwater species like trout, or salmon, or arctic grayling. No goldfish or catfish are found in cold or arctic mountain waters to my knowledge. So what you're looking for is a catfish species that will tolerate colder temperatures.

Well, goldfish are a type of trout, no? And for a catfish species that will tolerate "colder" temps, the temp in my tank is never really "cold" per se; it stays at room temperature, at approx. high 60s to 70 degrees.

Second, lets talk size; goldfish get big. Many people don't get that - your common feeder goldfish for example, will grow to over 18" in the proper environment, and I assume therefore that your fancytail goldfish will as well. So you also need a catfish species that will grow in size along with your goldfish.

Fair enough. But I happen to be one of those fancytail owners that do in fact "get it" regarding their ridiculously large growth potential.

Third, lets talk purpose; you stated that you wanted some fish to clean up the gunk on the bottom and possiblely the glass of your aquarium. The only glass cleaning catfish to my knowledge is a pleco. The common pleco will grow to size with your catfish (provided they don't get too huge, which they shouldn't in your 60gal aquarium), and I have kept plecos in a unheated tank - although I don't know that that is necessarily recommended (as they are more tropical).

So, you're saying that my goldfish shouldn't get too large in the 60-gallon?

And you do realize that goldfish themselves are a bottom feeder right? If you want them to help clean up the gunk, minimize feeding or feed shrimp pellets rather than flake food.

Did you see my thread regarding if my goldfish could eat the shrimp pellets or veggie discs? These seem to be wreaking havoc in my tank right now, so I've cut out these foods from their diets...

Part of why goldfish tanks are seldom crystal clear is because the goldfish are stirring around in the substrate. Its part of why goldfish and trout can't coexist in the same pond.

Now that first part is VERY interesting and may be the answer to why my tank is NEVER clear; thanks for that info (although I do see them pecking around in the gravel all the time with my own two eyes, so I should have known that...). But aren't goldfish a form of trout?

Keep in mind that most catfish you see for sale in a pet store are going to be like most of the fish - i.e. tropical. If you want to get something more tolerant of colder temperatures that will grow in size with your goldfish, you'll probably need to think outside the box (i.e. my recommendation of a channel catfish, which you're not to likely to see for sale in many petstores any more - at one time albino Channel cats were fairly easy to get).

At this point, I just want to know if ANY catfish are compatible with goldfish of the fancy variety...

And lastly, identify for us what temp. you plan on keeping your tank around. When you say coldwater, I picture my native trout tank that has a chiller on it. I presume from reading through some of your threads and posts that that isn't really what you intend. But maybe you're thinking unheated or minimal temp. like 72 (FYI, some research indicates that goldfish actually do best in tanks that are allowed to experience normal seasonal-like fluctuations in temperature).

Well, at this point, I am planning on leaving the tank at complete room temperature -- which according to my rather cheap Top Fin thermometer claims to bob right around the high-60s and perhaps 70 degree mark.

There are lots of different ways to do the aquarium thing as Taylor said, so decide on some of the specifics, then go from there.

Hope that helps.

Thanx.

 

[mattrox]

Well, goldfish are a type of trout, no?

- No, goldfish are a type of carp.

At this point, I just want to know if ANY catfish are compatible with goldfish of the fancy variety...

Yes there will be, but plecos, bristlenose or otos won't compete for food with your goldies, although should have warm water.

Pictus cats might out compete goldies for food (maybe). aslo should have warm water.

Big plecos and goldies are large waste producers so you will need to have ample filtration.

If some catties get too big too quickly they could eat your goldfish.

Well, at this point, I am planning on leaving the tank at complete room temperature -- which according to my rather cheap Top Fin thermometer claims to bob right around the high-60s and perhaps 70 degree mark.

If you are doing that I would think about the channel cat, but get them tiny, much smaller that your goldies. Also, I haven't had experience with them so would be concerned about size/temprament.

 

[jsoong]

OK, I was away so didn't see this thread at first .... Well I think I can answer the OP's original question.

1. Goldfish are sub-tropical rather than cold water, so they are more a "cool" water fish ... <pun intended ... sorry!>
2. Fancies tend to prefer warmer water than commons - commons generally do best in high 60's, fancies in low to mid 70's. Fancies tend also to be smaller than commons and swim much slower, they are much more susceptible to predation/injury by other fish.
3. Small catfish (otos, cories) can be eaten by big goldfish. There had been cases of those catfish lodging in the mouth of the goldies (they generally have spines that are designed to prevent being swallowed). This usually results in the death of both fish. For this reason (plus others), the small catfish are not compatible with goldies.
4. Big catfish (commons, etc) can & do eat goldfish, esp. the fancies, which are not fast enough to escape. Even juveniles of the big catfish are not safe, as they sometime will suck off the slime coats of the fancies while they are sleeping, even when they are not big enough to eat the goldfish whole.
4. Really rambunctious cats (like pictus) will disturb the slow swimming fancies ... even if they were temp & size compatible (which the pictus is not.)
5. That leaves the dwarf catfish - bristlenose & rubberlip. These are not too big (4" or so) nor too small, and had been kept successfully with goldfish by many. As long as you heat your tank to at least mid 70's the cats should do fine. There is a small chance the dwarf may injure a fancy by sucking on the slime coat, but this generally happens only when the cat is starving. With enough algae (or proper feeding of the cat with veggies) the risk is minimal.

Finally, someone mentioned the hillstream loach. Hillies are not catfish, nor are they bottom feeders, or algae cleaner. They are cool fish, well suited to the river tank mentioned a few pages back .... but they don't have much to do with the original question ....

 

[Wy Renegade]

Well, goldfish are a type of trout, no?

Thanx.

You are welcome - sorry I couldn't be more help.

- No, goldfish are a type of carp.

Correct

OK, I was away so didn't see this thread at first .... Well I think I can answer the OP's original question.

5. That leaves the dwarf catfish - bristlenose & rubberlip. These are not too big (4" or so) nor too small, and had been kept successfully with goldfish by many. As long as you heat your tank to at least mid 70's the cats should do fine. There is a small chance the dwarf may injure a fancy by sucking on the slime coat, but this generally happens only when the cat is starving. With enough algae (or proper feeding of the cat with veggies) the risk is minimal.
[\QUOTE]

and there is your answer - thank you jsoong. Some very good info there.

 

[Osage_Winter]

- No, goldfish are a type of carp.

Oh, yes, that's right -- I meant CARP. Thanks for the clarification Matt.

Yes there will be, but plecos, bristlenose or otos won't compete for food with your goldies, although should have warm water.

Pictus cats might out compete goldies for food (maybe). aslo should have warm water.

Big plecos and goldies are large waste producers so you will need to have ample filtration.

If some catties get too big too quickly they could eat your goldfish.




If you are doing that I would think about the channel cat, but get them tiny, much smaller that your goldies. Also, I haven't had experience with them so would be concerned about size/temprament.

Thanks for the info here; good stuff for me to chew on...