3 months in and frustraited!!!

[Josh Jennings]

Lol. Thanks!

 

[jlk]

Where can I get IMO Seachem Prime ?

Online and most lfs's (including Petsmart & Petco).

 

[Josh Jennings]

Here's my tank by the way.

 

[jlk]

@Phin
We are not going off topic into another discussion of salt or carbon use because this post concerns Joshs situation. Its for the OP to decide based on his own research. Btw, the article you presented is for carbon use in marine aquariums. Sw is another ballpark and we are discussing fw. I highly doubt you find many, if any, fw tank owners that test for phosphate levels because they of little importance in a fw tank. Carbon will leech stuff in ph extremes- guess what? If your ph is 4 or 10, your fish will already be dead anyway so toxins being leeched really doesnt matter. Check out the link below for carbon pros & cons.

Salt use in fw is a debate in itself. Perhaps you should read the research presented in the infamous salt debate in the link below. Realize also that tap water has a natural salinity already present and that the amount of salt necessary to kill a parasite such as ich is much higher than anyone would add to a fw tank on a regular basis (.3-.5%). Most other parasites will be unaffected by salt use even in high concentrations. End of discussion.

Carbon Filtration In Freshwater Aquariums

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/is-aquarium-salt-needed-227851.html

 

[ownedbycats]

I'd just like to point out that you can get a siphon/water vacuum with a squeeze bulb in the middle that you pump to get the siphon going. That eliminates all need to suck on the end of a tube and risk getting tank water in your mouth. The one I use for my 20g cost about $15, although one big enough for a 60 gallon might cost a bit more.
Aquarium Gravel Vacuum » Top Fin® Aquarium Gravel Vacuum | PetSmart
that blue thing is the squeeze pump.

 

[Wolfsblood]

You can also just fill the tube up with water, turn it upside down and before all the water leaves the tube stick it back in. Not really necessary to spend the extra $5 on the one with the pump

 

[phishfriend]

Josh,

You have some great help here. I'd just like to add a few thinks I did't see or my have missed in previous posts.
First is chemicals like ammonia lock. Throw in the trash. You don't need them.
Prime or safe (powdered form of prime) is really all you need. Active carbon isn't worth the cost and is only a short term use.

There is a one product that I would recommend and that is "purigen" by seachem the same company that makes prime and safe. It's very good stuff I use it in all of my tanks. Comes in different size units, pre bagged or not. Last for 1 to 6 months. Plus it is rechargeable so that you don't have to keep dropping money on the countertop to replace it. Look into it.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[Hobgob]

Do not use ammo lock or any other chemicals trust me and lots of people on here it just makes more issues which is your tank not cycling. Also those chemicals hurt your fish! There is no need to use anything to deal with ammo and nitrite. If you want use prime water conditioner and it apparently neutralizes its for the first 24 hours.

You shouldn't wash your filter media in tap water. The chlorine and temperature shock will kill all the beneficial bacteria which will make your tank mini cycle which is another reason you have nitrite issues.

When you say ph is low what exactly do you mean is low? Iniridaes spawn in water with a ph of 3.5-4 otherwise the eggs won't hatch. Discus have spawned anywhere from 5-8.5. Ph is very adaptable for fish. It just can't be a sudden change in ph. This is why we acclimate the fish.

 

[Hobgob]

You have been given bad advice! You need to take your gravel vac and put it into the gravel! All the debris is under the gravel and needs to be sucked out otherwise you will have high nitrates.
And everyone you do a water change you should rinse out the filter media. All the poop is in your filter decaying producing nitrates when all you have to do is rinse it in your tank water.
Listen to jlk

 

[croatian2]

Bad advice. A more "proper" way to do maintain your tank would be to get a 5 gallon bucket from home depot or lowes and only use it for your aquarium. Don't put anything in the bucket you wouldn't put in your aquarium. Then get a gravel vacuum siphon. I extended my siphon by removing the clear hard plastic tube and replacing with a long piece of 2"pvc so I can vaccum the substrate without having to get elbow deep. On your 60 gallon tank, you will want something at least 20" long.

Place the pipe end of the siphon in the tank and suck on the hose end until you see water flowing down the tube. Quickly take the end of the hose out of your mouth and put it in the bucket. Let gravity work. You may need to turn off your filters beforehand depending on the amount of water you are removing so that the motors don't run dry. Each bucket-full will be 5 gallons. On a 60 gallon tank you probably have closer to 50 or 55 gallons of water depending on how much substrate or rockwork/decorations you have. You can estimate each bucket to be 5% of the volume of the tank.

When you vacuum the gravel you don't need to remove the gravel or stir the gravel up. Let the substrate stay put. If you stir it up you release mulm, nitrates, and nastyness. Let the gravel be. It is not necessary to stir up or remove. All you need to do is to place the end of the pipe within an inch or half inch of the top of the gravel and any waste will be sucked up.

When you have removed the amount of buckets you desire fill your bucket up with water from your tap with water that is of a similar temperature of your tank. If you are only replacing 5% the temperature of the new water won't make much of a difference. Once the bucket of new water is filled add your salt (API aquarium salt or Morton Ice Cream Salt (what I use in my planted tank) add one tablespoon of salt to each 5 gallon bucket. Only add salt when changing water, not replacing water due to evaporation. Then add 10-20 drops of Seachem Prime to the bucket.
Side note: It is best not to add chlorinated/untreated water directly to the tank. If you do you need to treat the entire volume of the tank with dechlorinator, not just the water you added. This can get expensive and wasteful, as well as the fact you are exposing your tank and fish to chlorine and chloramines.
Stir with a dowel or long stick you have for aquarium purposes. Pour the bucket full into the tank and repeat to replace the amount of buckets removed. Once you replace all the water you siphoned out and still need to add more water fill another bucket and treat with prime. It is not necessary to add salt (or anything else) to this bucket.

IMO, Seachem Prime is the best and only water conditioner you need. At 2 drops per gallon it lasts forever. It is much cheaper than using stress coat and better. It removes chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals, neutralizes ammonia (which is produced by the removal of chlorine and chloramine) as well as nitrites. It can be used in an emergency to neutralize nitrates. It also has something for the fishs' slime coat, like stress coat claims.

It sounds like you have an aquaclear filter or something similar with three stages of filtration. The filter sponge is the mechanical stage and filters out large particals. The carbon is the chemical stage and absorbs impurities from the water. The coral balls are most likely the biological stage and harbor the aerobic bacteria that converts the ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. Your filter sponge will harbor the bacteria as well. If your filter doesn't have one, add some fine floss/polishing pad to remove small particals that aren't caught by the coarse sponge.

You don't normally need to do anything to your filter. Especially not with each water change.

When flow through your filter slows, take the sponge and floss out. I would replace the floss and rinse the sponge with old water that is sitting in the 5 gallon bucket before you dump it. Give it a few squeezes underwater and it will be good to go.

The carbon will only work for approximately 2-4 weeks before it maximizes out its absorbtion capabilities and will have to be removed or replaced. If old carbon is left in for a while it will leech phosphates into your tank which contribute to algae problems. Many people do not run carbon. I do in my cichlid tank but I have no chemical filtration at all in my planted tank.

NEVER EVER EVER rinse your ceramic or coral balls. If they absolutely need to be cleaned give them a quick dunk in the bucket of old tank water. Don't ever expose them to chlorinated water. Don't let them dry out. You want the bacteria on these balls to grow and thrive. Cleaning them is the main cause of your problems.

Are these the parameters of your tap water? If so, unless you are trying to keep specific plants or fish, such as discuss, you will need to buffer your water. If you have very little alkalinity you have no buffering capacity and your tank will be subject to large pH swings. Simple baking soda can solve this problem.

Experiment by testing your tap water. Increase the kH of your water by adding 1/4-1/2 tsp per 5 gallons of water. 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda will increase your kH by about 2 degrees. Play around until you get the desired results. Then add that amount of baking soda to each 5 gallon bucket of water you replace along with your salt and prime.

Your cycle is being interupted and the bacteria needed to convert NO2 to NO3 are being killed before they can become established.

Sounds like ammonia/nitrite poisoning.

You can change as much or as little water as frequently as you like and is necessary to have a clean tank. 5% a day, a week, or more. I rarely do more than 50% at once, and if you do you need to be careful not to shock your fish with the new water. But a 60 gallon tank, unless you have a dozen of each of the fish you listed, would probably maintain low nitrate levels with weekly 5% or 10% water changes. Once your tank is cycled you won't need the ammo lock, in fact I'm not sure ammo lock protects against nitrite, but only ammonia. It seems like your problem is ammonia, so I don't know that the ammo lock is even doing anything beneficial. It isn't hurting though.

Just follow the directions above and you will have a nice, hassel free tank very soon. If you would like to speed up the creation of the biological process buy some Seachem Stability and add it to your tank based on the entire 60 gallons. You can add it directly to the tank. Follow the directions on the bottle, but it only needs to be used until you have Ammonia and Nitrites at 0 and Nitrate production. You won't need it with each water change.

Good luck.

Thanks for the post this has helped me fix my problems.

 

[Hobgob]

Are you sticking the vac in the gravel? For sand you can just coast above but the gravel doesn't compact enough to hold all the debris above the surface. If you don't do this your tank has the potential to go south. All that debris will make your nitrates hard to deal with.
It's why under gravel filters aren't a good idea

 

[Josh Jennings]

Ok. Here are the numbers you ask me to get...

My tap water straight from the tap...

pH = 6.4
Ammonia = 0.25
Nitrite = 0.25
Nitrate = 0

After being set aside and stirred...

pH = 6.0
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 0

So what do y'all think...

We had a touch and go night last night. All the fish were at the surface gulping... I did a 50% water change and things got better... I went to Petsmart today and got a tank vac. I plan to do a 50% change once a week for 3 weeks ?? I think that's what I remember y'all recommending??

Again should I or shouldn't I put carbon packet back in?

 

[phishfriend]

At this point no carbon. Your at a good neutral place. Your tank is I think finally balanced to where it should be before the bad advise form the LFS got you.

Stay with the basics WC's and prime, Period! If you follow the steps from here nature will bring your tank inline.

I would say with the volume of fish you have. One water change a week isn't going to do it. 2 maybe 3. I know it's like it seems it will never end but it does I swear! Just keep testing an doing water changes. They don't all have to be 50% but you want to stay ahead of the ammonia and keep lvl's under .25 as much as possible.

 

[luvlife23]

Bad advice. A more "proper" way to do maintain your tank would be to get a 5 gallon bucket from home depot or lowes and only use it for your aquarium. Don't put anything in the bucket you wouldn't put in your aquarium. Then get a gravel vacuum siphon. I extended my siphon by removing the clear hard plastic tube and replacing with a long piece of 2"pvc so I can vaccum the substrate without having to get elbow deep. On your 60 gallon tank, you will want something at least 20" long.

Place the pipe end of the siphon in the tank and suck on the hose end until you see water flowing down the tube. Quickly take the end of the hose out of your mouth and put it in the bucket. Let gravity work. You may need to turn off your filters beforehand depending on the amount of water you are removing so that the motors don't run dry. Each bucket-full will be 5 gallons. On a 60 gallon tank you probably have closer to 50 or 55 gallons of water depending on how much substrate or rockwork/decorations you have. You can estimate each bucket to be 5% of the volume of the tank.

When you vacuum the gravel you don't need to remove the gravel or stir the gravel up. Let the substrate stay put. If you stir it up you release mulm, nitrates, and nastyness. Let the gravel be. It is not necessary to stir up or remove. All you need to do is to place the end of the pipe within an inch or half inch of the top of the gravel and any waste will be sucked up.

When you have removed the amount of buckets you desire fill your bucket up with water from your tap with water that is of a similar temperature of your tank. If you are only replacing 5% the temperature of the new water won't make much of a difference. Once the bucket of new water is filled add your salt (API aquarium salt or Morton Ice Cream Salt (what I use in my planted tank) add one tablespoon of salt to each 5 gallon bucket. Only add salt when changing water, not replacing water due to evaporation. Then add 10-20 drops of Seachem Prime to the bucket.
Side note: It is best not to add chlorinated/untreated water directly to the tank. If you do you need to treat the entire volume of the tank with dechlorinator, not just the water you added. This can get expensive and wasteful, as well as the fact you are exposing your tank and fish to chlorine and chloramines.
Stir with a dowel or long stick you have for aquarium purposes. Pour the bucket full into the tank and repeat to replace the amount of buckets removed. Once you replace all the water you siphoned out and still need to add more water fill another bucket and treat with prime. It is not necessary to add salt (or anything else) to this bucket.

IMO, Seachem Prime is the best and only water conditioner you need. At 2 drops per gallon it lasts forever. It is much cheaper than using stress coat and better. It removes chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals, neutralizes ammonia (which is produced by the removal of chlorine and chloramine) as well as nitrites. It can be used in an emergency to neutralize nitrates. It also has something for the fishs' slime coat, like stress coat claims.

It sounds like you have an aquaclear filter or something similar with three stages of filtration. The filter sponge is the mechanical stage and filters out large particals. The carbon is the chemical stage and absorbs impurities from the water. The coral balls are most likely the biological stage and harbor the aerobic bacteria that converts the ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. Your filter sponge will harbor the bacteria as well. If your filter doesn't have one, add some fine floss/polishing pad to remove small particals that aren't caught by the coarse sponge.

You don't normally need to do anything to your filter. Especially not with each water change.

When flow through your filter slows, take the sponge and floss out. I would replace the floss and rinse the sponge with old water that is sitting in the 5 gallon bucket before you dump it. Give it a few squeezes underwater and it will be good to go.

The carbon will only work for approximately 2-4 weeks before it maximizes out its absorbtion capabilities and will have to be removed or replaced. If old carbon is left in for a while it will leech phosphates into your tank which contribute to algae problems. Many people do not run carbon. I do in my cichlid tank but I have no chemical filtration at all in my planted tank.

NEVER EVER EVER rinse your ceramic or coral balls. If they absolutely need to be cleaned give them a quick dunk in the bucket of old tank water. Don't ever expose them to chlorinated water. Don't let them dry out. You want the bacteria on these balls to grow and thrive. Cleaning them is the main cause of your problems.

Are these the parameters of your tap water? If so, unless you are trying to keep specific plants or fish, such as discuss, you will need to buffer your water. If you have very little alkalinity you have no buffering capacity and your tank will be subject to large pH swings. Simple baking soda can solve this problem.

Experiment by testing your tap water. Increase the kH of your water by adding 1/4-1/2 tsp per 5 gallons of water. 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda will increase your kH by about 2 degrees. Play around until you get the desired results. Then add that amount of baking soda to each 5 gallon bucket of water you replace along with your salt and prime.

Your cycle is being interupted and the bacteria needed to convert NO2 to NO3 are being killed before they can become established.

Sounds like ammonia/nitrite poisoning.

You can change as much or as little water as frequently as you like and is necessary to have a clean tank. 5% a day, a week, or more. I rarely do more than 50% at once, and if you do you need to be careful not to shock your fish with the new water. But a 60 gallon tank, unless you have a dozen of each of the fish you listed, would probably maintain low nitrate levels with weekly 5% or 10% water changes. Once your tank is cycled you won't need the ammo lock, in fact I'm not sure ammo lock protects against nitrite, but only ammonia. It seems like your problem is ammonia, so I don't know that the ammo lock is even doing anything beneficial. It isn't hurting though.

Just follow the directions above and you will have a nice, hassel free tank very soon. If you would like to speed up the creation of the biological process buy some Seachem Stability and add it to your tank based on the entire 60 gallons. You can add it directly to the tank. Follow the directions on the bottle, but it only needs to be used until you have Ammonia and Nitrites at 0 and Nitrate production. You won't need it with each water change.

Good luck.

This is an excellent step by step....where were you when I was first setting up my tank and lost a handful of fish.
You are an asset to this hobby. Thanks for the great advice!

 

[jlk]

Thanks! The carbon will have no effect on your ph but its up to you whether you want to use it or not. I would add some other type of media personally (filter foam/sponge, filter floss, ceramic rings, etc) because it wont need to be replaced every few weeks.

Your ph though really is quite low and this can be an issue getting a tank to cycle/keeping it cycled. Your nitrifying bacteria do not function quite as well in the low 6's and pretty much are rendered nonfunctional by the acidic environment once the ph hits 6 and below range. It may be worth considering adding some crushed coral/aragonite or even cr limestone/seashells in a mesh bag to your filter to try and keep your ph in a slightly higher range (@6.5).

 

[Josh Jennings]

Ok. Thanks !!

 

[Josh Jennings]

Ok. The advice you guys have given has helped a lot! Another question I have is where do most of you get your supply's ? I've noticed every time I go into a pet store they want to pitch a ton of chemicals at me and then offer me more fish even though I have 40 in my tank now praying that's not too many. Do y'all shop on line and if do where?

 

[Hholly]

I get most of my stuff on Amazon. Can't beat super-saver shipping!

 

[Slade]

Josh, there are many online places. I've used Dr Foster & Smith, Kensfish, thatfishplace, amazon, bigals. A good place to start are the sponsors on this forum.

I just found this thread, and see you've been given the same advice that I'd have given. You're on your way to a stable tank - don't get discouraged. The hard part is over.

 

[jlk]

I get most of my stuff on Amazon. Can't beat super-saver shipping!

Same here!