Algae or Somthing Else (Detailed Explanation)

[chat_patta]

Hello All:
I was impressed by the help I got recently on another thread. This problem is driving me nuts.........
I think that I am now doing everything as to be done......... monitored NO3 and PO4 like crazy, Please please help............
I went all out for plants as twice already I had destroyed the entire plants because of Algae once and once diatoms. Assumed that lots of plants will save me from frequent Algae blooms........ nope..
I am giving the day-to-day readings and quantities of NO3, PO4, KH, GH, TDS, Macro and Micros. Water changes and any significant observations.
Please look at the pics. Every suggestion will be highly appreciated.

 

[chat_patta]

Contd.

Environment:

 

[chat_patta]

Contd.

More Pics .........

 

[chat_patta]

Contd.

Last pics....

 

[Bert2oo1]

Do u have pressurised co2? Are u making sure your hitting 30ppm or over?

 

[Caliban07]

What is your filter turnover per hour?

Increase the length of the spraybar or add some powerheads. It isn't long enough so you are getting sporadic mixing of co2. Another suggestion would be to have an inline diffuser so the co2 bubbles are minimised as they exit the spraybar.

How high is your lighting? And how long do you run it? High light increases co2 demand so you could reduce lighting.

Wisteria are fast growing plants and there are lots of them. Based on the algae pics I'd say you need more flow and co2, perhaps less light.

 

[chat_patta]

Hi Bert2oo1:
As mentioned on the 2nd page 'Environment' under 'Timers' you can see the the hours I run my CO2, with help of Milwaukee Instruments pH meter, I set it up for 7.2 cutoff. It is constantly monitored and released when needed slowly of course. Please read my NO3 and PO4 values and see if there is any pattern I am missing.
The analysis needs more detail (in depth study) at my data collected on almost daily basis.
Thanks again for the time and interest

 

[chat_patta]

Hi Caliban07:
On the 'Enviroment' the second is filtration which is mentioned at 525 gph. I have even defined the filters I am using in it.
I had used an in-line-diffuser. But my diffuser is now in the tank. CO2 is monitored by milwaukee instruments pH meter, and seems like pretty accurate to be cut off on 7.2 (because of Amano Shrimps). KH I am keeping high (8-11), with GH around 8 too.
As for the light, I am running the ballast at 50%, as at 75% there is frequent pearling with algae formation.
The analysis needs more detail (in depth study) at my data collected on almost daily basis.
Thanks for your time and interest.

 

[chat_patta]

Probably my previous data was not that readable so I am trying to put clear images of it again for my esteemed viewers, just click on the image to get a focused/sharper view.

 

[Bert2oo1]

So if I'm reading correctly u do smaller water changes multiple times a week is that correct?
Equaling 50% over the week?

 

[Caliban07]

Probably my previous data was not that readable so I am trying to put clear images of it again for my esteemed viewers, just click on the image to get a focused/sharper view.

This is better. That chart before was unreadable.

What is your starting ph before lights on? If you are worried about Amano shrimp, when I had them in my 46 gallon they would frequently carry eggs at a ph of 5.9 starting in the morning before lights on.

I keep these pictures handy.





I would suspect that you are not allowing enough co2 in to the tank and you may well be losing most of it to atmospheric before it reaches the plants.

 

[chat_patta]

Hi Bert2oo1: Lets take Nov., did a 25 G water change in 12 days.......... i.e. 55% in currently 12 days but will go up to 14 days. So yes 55% water change in 14+ days.
Previous month I did 47 G in 19 days that is almost 100% in 20 days. Planning not do that many water changes in this month.
So you think I should reduce the number of water changes?

 

[chat_patta]

Hi Caliban07:
As u must have noted under timers I have 'Air 7pm to 7am', so heavy aeration during night, which increases my pH from 7.2 to 7.9/8.0 in the morning before injecting CO2.
CO2 is distributed evenly in the tank as when I was testing the light the pearling rate would be even through out the tank. I took pH measurement at different areas of the tank to confirm that my pH is constant and hence my CO2 is also.

In the pic below I have showed the bottom part of the stem, total stem was about 7" and only the bottom one inch was rotted black as in the pic.

 

[Caliban07]

Chat please can you explain your lighting schedule? It's not clear from the chat but it looks like they are being switched on and off for 1.5 hour intervals at times.

The general rule is that with a low to medium KH. A 1 point PH drop will equate to approximately 30ppm of co2. 30ppm co2 is the standard value of co2 that planted tank keepers try to achieve. Your ph seems to be dropping 1 point which is fine but it is over the course of a few hours. The plants need the 30ppm of co2 as soon as the lights come on. So normally which switch our co2 on a couple of hours before the light.

1) I don't think your at 30ppm co2
2) your co2 is not at its highest at the right times.
3) the photoperiod should be one block of around 8 hours.

 

[chat_patta]

Hi Caliban07:
Light: Schedule is 3hrs ON - 1hr OFF - 1.5hrs ON - 1.5hrs OFF - 1hr ON
I switch ON my CO2 at 7am where as my light switch on at 9:30, giving enough time for CO2 to be ideal (7.2 with KH between 8 and 11), when the lights comes on.
Need to watch my CO2 levels because of Amano Shrimp (great algae eaters). Following chart for CO2 referencing so if you see at KH at lets say 9 and 7.2 pH, the CO2 ppm is 17ppm, I can increase the CO2 by increasing my KH to 15 and then reach your recommended 30ppm, please note at any level of pH, when CO2 30 or 30+ ppm it is in the red (i.e. start of danger for fish/shrimp). So I will consider 28ppm of CO2 as the limit of safety.

As per your suggestion I am lowering my pH level to 7.0 providing me with CO2 around 27ppm. Tomorrow I might even increase the KH from currently 9 dKH to 11 or 12 dKH

P.S.> As I mentioned previously, please click on the image to get a clear image, you can even 'view' it separately and then enlarge to see it better.

 

[Caliban07]

Hi Caliban07:
Light: Schedule is 3hrs ON - 1hr OFF - 1.5hrs ON - 1.5hrs OFF - 1hr ON
I switch ON my CO2 at 7am where as my light switch on at 9:30, giving enough time for CO2 to be ideal (7.2 with KH between 8 and 11), when the lights comes on.
Need to watch my CO2 levels because of Amano Shrimp (great algae eaters). Following chart for CO2 referencing so if you see at KH at lets say 9 and 7.2 pH, the CO2 ppm is 17ppm, I can increase the CO2 by increasing my KH to 15 and then reach your recommended 30ppm.

Hi chat. Now I see your problem.

Firstly, your lighting schedule is favouring algae. Algae do not have to spend time activating the mechanisms required for co2 uptake.

See here for more details.

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/can-someone-explain-rubisco-to-me.31443/

Paying particular interest to Cegs posts

Forcing the plants to constantly 'boot up' their systems is going to encourage co2 instability.

Secondly, the chart you are using cannot be used because it is corrupt.

See posts 26 and 28 here for more details

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/all-of-the-co2-questions-for-my-tank-352085.html

The only way you can increase co2 in your fish tank is by adding more co2. The chart significantly overestimates co2 when applied to our fish tanks.

Lastly, your KH test kit is lying to you because it doesn't measure carbonates exclusively. The chart assumes KH is only influenced by carbonates.

See the last post here as to why the KH test kit cannot be 100% relied upon.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/gh-dh-dkh-kh-and-ppm-352188-2.html

As thought originally. You need more co2

 

[Bert2oo1]

I'd agree with caliban. Co2 up to or close to 30ppm is a must. This will rid u of your algae issues. Many users one here have 30ppm of co2 and shrimp and haven't had any problems. Just crank it up and keep and eye on them. I'd suggest going as far as u can until they start acting funny. Then dial it back a tiny and u should be good

I would also suggest sticking to 1 water change weekly of 50% as this way you know there is no build up of excess nutrients etc.

Remember it's all about keeping balance

 

[chat_patta]

Thank you both

Hi guys:
Made some changes as per your suggestion and will keep on increasing light hours slowly (pls. see my worksheet's comments for future dates). I will also update you on the progress of the plants. After increasing my light from 50% to 75% today I noticed a very thin stream of bubbles (pearling) from only two Ludwigia plants and that too from one particular leaf of each plant.
But pls. take time to visit the thread periodically as I will update my conditions.

Grateful & Regards;

 

[Bert2oo1]

Hi guys:
Made some changes as per your suggestion and will keep on increasing light hours slowly (pls. see my worksheet's comments for future dates). I will also update you on the progress of the plants. After increasing my light from 50% to 75% today I noticed a very thin stream of bubbles (pearling) from only two Ludwigia plants and that too from one particular leaf of each plant.
But pls. take time to visit the thread periodically as I will update my conditions.

Grateful & Regards;

I would have left the light at 50 and just increased to co2. In saying that by increasing the light u should also get better growth and colour. Just remember as u raise the light the more co2 your plants will demand

Following your thread to see future results

 

[Caliban07]

I would have left the light at 50 and just increased to co2. In saying that by increasing the light u should also get better growth and colour. Just remember as u raise the light the more co2 your plants will demand

Following your thread to see future results

+1 more light will exacerbate the plants need for co2 so upping light (at this point) may not be wise.

There are a shortage of updates here on this forum so it's refreshing to see you will be updating periodically.

I'll be checking in for sure.

Good luck.