All of the CO2 questions (for my tank)

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Don't worry about ph drops. Mine drops from 7.2-6.6 when I'm injecting co2 over a weekly basis. The swings don't hurt the fish it just means your co2 is working ;)
As long as your fish are still active and arnt gasping at the surface u know your good ;)

if u do find your fish gasping then drop an air stone in for a few hours and they should go back to normal :) it's all about finding a balanced feed of co2 ;)
Okay, thank you. The pH had been pretty consistent, so that did freak me out.
 
Do you have drop checker? If so what solution and how it color
 
Diffusers in general are cheap in price and alot are cheap in quality.

While a drop checker not essential it is helpful. I have one and think its a good thing to have.
Tons of choices on amazon
 
What are you expecting to see? This value will not change by adding co2. Even if it did. These are the kind of conclusions we have to avoid. Test kit results using these kind of methods should be taken with a degree of skepticism.
Okay but a pH of 7.8 and a kH of 5 means very little dissolved CO2. Yesterday, before putting the tube into the filter siphon, the dissolved CO2 was 14. This morning it's 4.

While a drop checker not essential it is helpful. I have one and think its a good thing to have.
Tons of choices on amazon

Thanks. [researching]
 
Okay but a pH of 7.8 and a kH of 5 means very little dissolved CO2. Yesterday, before putting the tube into the filter siphon, the dissolved CO2 was 14. This morning it's 4.


In a theoretical world this is true. Practically it's probably even less. The chart assumes that carbonic acid is the only influence on pH and that carbonates are the only influence on KH. This doesn't happen in a fish tank. Only in a drop checker. DC's however come with their own problems.

What I am trying to say is that there is no definitive way you can conclude that these values are correct. You cannot even validate the accuracy or the KH reading or the ph reading you have taken.

Measuring co2 accurately is near impossible without spending lots of money.

You need a proper co2 system [emoji846] after that you can turn the needle valve up everyday until your plants are happy.

Taking note of this advice will only make you more adept at delivering co2 sufficiently. Do not think I am trying to derail you. The faster you understand why you and your plants are the best test kit for measuring co2. The easier and less frustrating it will be.
 
Hmm.. Previously you managed to drop pH down to 6.8 somehow. What happened?

So you're depending on sunlight mainly? I'm not sure you'll even need much (or any) co2 honestly. It certainly won't hurt, and will speed up growth even in very low light as long as all other needs are also met. Trying to hit 30 ppm could be way overkill unless you're planning on actually lighting this tank. Better to be on the safe side, but I think dropping the pH by just half a point which equals roughly 10 ppm of co2 could quite possibly be more than sufficient.
 
Hmm.. Previously you managed to drop pH down to 6.8 somehow. What happened?

Yep. That's why I was concerned.

So you're depending on sunlight mainly? I'm not sure you'll even need much (or any) co2 honestly. It certainly won't hurt, and will speed up growth even in very low light as long as all other needs are also met.

So many people say that having a fish tank in a window will be way too *much* light, so it's strange to hear of this described as a low light situation.


Measuring co2 accurately is near impossible without spending lots of money.

There's a degree of accuracy knowing that I'm nowhere near where I want to be. 26 ppm is outside any margin of error these tests provide.

You need a proper co2 system.

Are you offering?

·····

I'm not trying to be snarky here. It's confusing to hear that a drastic change in pH makes sense then that it doesn't and that I should be getting fancier tests and tests aren't worthwhile and that the plants have enough but then they also don't.

My husband is also telling me about how using the air pump to add atmospheric air is adding more CO2 than a DIY system can deliver, which is just..... exhausting. He says all we need is a tank of CO2 and a needle valve, but I'm pretty sure people wouldn't be spending all this money if it were so simple.
 
Okay apparently, since he is a welder who uses industrial gases, these systems are very familiar to him. Maybe I shouldn't be discouraged by him saying, "pshaw! that's easy."
 
What if I were to do something like the Fluval kit?


U could but a better option for the size of your tank (that's cheaper than a full setup) would be a paintball or fire extinguisher rig. U can get mini regs from aquatek or gla that got them and there not overly pricey.

I 100% disagree about not needing 30ppm of co2. If your co2 is at 30 or close to then u no there is no nutrient limit on your plants no matter how much light u have. And if your plants are Maxed out on nutrient and co2 then any algae will starv.

Don't be disheartened by DIY co2 if done properly it can give good results. It is cheaper to go pressurised in the long run but DIY is a good start. It's just a matter of trial and error to hit the sweet spot. What caliban means is focus on the plants and adjust to whatever they need. Rather than worrying about tests. If your plants are pearling daily and are growing like weeds and your fish are active then u know your co2 is at its sweet spot.

A drop checker is a good idea to start with just for reference but don't take it as a solid answer. U will learn when your co2 is at optimal levels.

A co2 cyclinder pumps out at about 3-500psi.
Unless that needle valve is extremely strong and accurate u would never get a steady bubble count. Regs bring pressure down to about 20-30psi and also give u the gauges to know when the tanks empty and what pressure your at so u can adjust it up or down to suit.
 
Yep. That's why I was concerned.



So many people say that having a fish tank in a window will be way too *much* light, so it's strange to hear of this described as a low light situation.




There's a degree of accuracy knowing that I'm nowhere near where I want to be. 26 ppm is outside any margin of error these tests provide.



Are you offering?

·····

I'm not trying to be snarky here. It's confusing to hear that a drastic change in pH makes sense then that it doesn't and that I should be getting fancier tests and tests aren't worthwhile and that the plants have enough but then they also don't.

My husband is also telling me about how using the air pump to add atmospheric air is adding more CO2 than a DIY system can deliver, which is just..... exhausting. He says all we need is a tank of CO2 and a needle valve, but I'm pretty sure people wouldn't be spending all this money if it were so simple.


You can't be snarky then say 'I'm not trying to be snark here' it doesn't quite work like that [emoji23] this is why I made a point of a putting a smiling emoji after the sentence 'you need a proper co2 system' and saying 'don't think I am trying to derail you' [emoji846]

Anyway my frustration only grows when I see people in the same situation I was only a year or so back.

DIY CO2 is always the precursor to a full setup. It's just an inevitability and I was hoping to encourage you to avoid it. They are fiddly, messy and laborious. They just have too many negatives that will only lead to frustration. It's a step that in my opinion should be avoided. The fluval system won't be much better either I'm afraid.

I was reluctant to use co2 when I joined the forum. So much so that went down the Walstad route. It failed for a number of reasons and one of them was co2.

Naturally I am a big reader and I enjoy science. Particularly biology then chemistry. It was only going to be a matter of time before I got the gist of the planted tank. Am I perfect? Absolutely not. There are so many variables in a fish tank that it becomes so difficult to know what to do for the best. You shouldn't feel disheartened.

If you have any concerns just ask.

I share the same views about test kits as dw1305 does in this post

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/accurate-method-of-mesuring-nitrates.33948/

Here it is common knowledgeable that test kits may not be as accurate as what we would like to think they are. On this forum people very rarely use test kits. The phosphate one is supposed to be worse.

That's why I believe I still get nitrate and phosphate inductive algae when even when the vial colours can go any deeper.

Ph drop due to weak acids do not cause harm to fish or inverts.

IMG_1478286939.024911.jpg

Here is a picture of my ph dropping to 5.9 from 7.6. I had ottos and amano shrimp in there that were carrying eggs.

Ph is often used to roughly achieve 30ppm co2. You can see from the ph/ph chart that a 1 unit ph drop equals much more in theory but the when we take in to consideration the other things that contribute towards KH and pH values in our tanks this is actually much less.
 
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What caliban says is true I used DIY for a while and it gave me massive algae issues due to the fluctuation of it. But if it's all u can afford at this stage then give it a go and u might like it. That's one thing about planted tanks they can be very expensive. All up I would have spent close to $1500 on my high tech 29g.

Using sunlight as a light and DIY co2 might being u some big algae dramas but it's worth a shot! It's all about learning after all :)
 
This is my tank when I ran DIY CO2:
t0j1atr.jpg
I ran it a year before I switched to pressurized. It was yeast based. Changed the yeast+sugar mix every 1-2 weeks. Now had I been using the citric acid method I may have stuck with it longer. I was attempting more challenging plants, upgrading the lighting, and wanted a more consistent and controllable source of carbon. If I stayed with the same light, Excel or glutaraldehyde would have been an alternative.
The lighting in this tank at the time was at the lower end of medium. No algae issues to speak of. Spent about $70 on this fixture and about $160 on the CO2 equipment.
 
I'm certainly not opposed to an actual set-up, but funds really are the limiting factor. The expenses add up quickly! I pointed my husband to a few technical articles and now he's excited about making things.

I've flat out never had pearling on these plants. One day my pearls will come....

I did my weekly water change and was very frustrated that my ludwigia (repens and what was labeled as "primrose") had come out of the substrate. Nope. They just grew a bunch. The microsword is going crazy, too.

If I'm not changing the light but only adding CO2, that shouldn't increase algae, right? If it does, then I'll deal with it. Or just have fat snails.

I have a five pound brick of yeast to work with. (purchased before this) We'll see how things go.
 
Not sure about the lighting situation but my 90g has a window that gets sun through a window and the glass that gets hit by the sunlight gets really bad brown algae. Hopefully all works out I look forward to following your progress
 
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