Blue Ram Help/20 gallon Planted

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I wouldn't want to keep a fish where it isn't comfortable, so I don't know. I'll make the decision about what cichlid to get once the tank has been running awhile. As for now Id on't have any questions. Thanks guys!

Nils
 
Whoa, Lightbulb! (Bing) It just occurred to me that I could a Bolivian Ram AND an Apistogramma! Right? No? Yes? Please Answer!

Nils
 
Whoa, Lightbulb! (Bing) It just occurred to me that I could a Bolivian Ram AND an Apistogramma! Right? No? Yes? Please Answer!

Nils

No, mixing dwarf cichlid species (especially in a smaller tank) tends to not end well. One will likely harass the other to death.
 
Oh haha ok. I saw it on a site about Apistos that they can be mixed with ram species, but I guess not. Should I have my LFS order it in or should I order it to my house?

Nils
 
Oh haha ok. I saw it on a site about Apistos that they can be mixed with ram species, but I guess not. Should I have my LFS order it in or should I order it to my house?

Nils

They can be mixed, but there has to be sufficient space for territories. Another issue is, a lot of apistos that are found with rams can be hard to find and the 1 or 2 species of corydoras that occur with them are almost never imported. So now that I think about it, if you're intent on having rams you should probably leave cories out.


Brookster, if I remember correctly all of the pygmy cory species com from the pantanal which is much much cooler than the Columbian Llanos where rams come from so lives may be drastically cut short there.

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So you are saying I should ditch the Rams altogether and just go with Apistos? I could do that, if they have the same requirements as the Rams and I can get them easily. Is Apisto care similar, if not the same?

Nils
 
the 1 or 2 species of corydoras that occur with them are almost never imported. So now that I think about it, if you're intent on having rams you should probably leave cories out.

Sterbai Corys can handle low 80s with no problem, and they're pretty easy to find. I've heard of folks using them with discus at 86 F, though I don't know if that is conducive to their normal longevity.

You can do lower-temp corys in the low 80s, but their metabolism will be increased and their lives will be a little shorter.

So you are saying I should ditch the Rams altogether and just go with Apistos? I could do that, if they have the same requirements as the Rams and I can get them easily. Is Apisto care similar, if not the same?

If you're going to keep your Peppered Corys, I'd not do BLUE Rams. However, Bolivian Rams would work fine in the mid-upper 70s.

If you want to do 10 corys in your 20 long and want to keep the Peppered, I really think that either a single Bolivian Ram or a single male Cockatoo Apisto (A. cacatuoides) would be your best bet for a centerpiece fish. These fish will thrive in the same temp range as your corys AND they're *much* hardier than Blue Rams. (You *might* be able to do a pair of A. cacatouides in that tank. I've never kept them, so I'll let those with experience chime in. Bolivian Ram pairs tend to be more aggressive towards tankmates when breeding, so I'd avoid those.)

As has been mentioned before, Blue Rams are very fragile and are not a fish for novices. I have near-optimal water parameters (pH 6.6, 3 dGH, 5-10 ppm nitrates, low 80s F, three water changes per week) and wouldn't be surprised if mine kicked the bucket six months from now. The typical stock at the local LFS probably won't last more than a few months in a well-kept aquarium. Advanced aquarists who purchase healthy and genetically-tough stock from a breeder and keep their tank in tip-top shape can expect anywhere from 1-2 years out of them, maybe 3 if they're lucky.
 
So you are saying I should ditch the Rams altogether and just go with Apistos? I could do that, if they have the same requirements as the Rams and I can get them easily. Is Apisto care similar, if not the same?

Nils

Their care is the same, but that is up to you

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Sterbai Corys can handle low 80s with no problem, and they're pretty easy to find. I've heard of folks using them with discus at 86 F, though I don't know if that is conducive to their normal longevity.

You can do lower-temp corys in the low 80s, but their metabolism will be increased and their lives will be a little shorter.



If you're going to keep your Peppered Corys, I'd not do BLUE Rams. However, Bolivian Rams would work fine in the mid-upper 70s.

If you want to do 10 corys in your 20 long and want to keep the Peppered, I really think that either a single Bolivian Ram or a single male Cockatoo Apisto (A. cacatuoides) would be your best bet for a centerpiece fish. These fish will thrive in the same temp range as your corys AND they're *much* hardier than Blue Rams. (You *might* be able to do a pair of A. cacatouides in that tank. I've never kept them, so I'll let those with experience chime in. Bolivian Ram pairs tend to be more aggressive towards tankmates when breeding, so I'd avoid those.)

As has been mentioned before, Blue Rams are very fragile and are not a fish for novices. I have near-optimal water parameters (pH 6.6, 3 dGH, 5-10 ppm nitrates, low 80s F, three water changes per week) and wouldn't be surprised if mine kicked the bucket six months from now. The typical stock at the local LFS probably won't last more than a few months in a well-kept aquarium. Advanced aquarists who purchase healthy and genetically-tough stock from a breeder and keep their tank in tip-top shape can expect anywhere from 1-2 years out of them, maybe 3 if they're lucky.

Sterbai are from the Rio Guapore in Bolivia so keeping them in temps above mid to high 70s is not a good thing.

You're also a bit off on the life expectancy of good ram stock, 1-2 years is the life expectancy of a ram in the wild, likely due to predation. Wild and well bred German rams properly cared for will live 4+ years, the owner of a store near me had some in his display tank for 6 years which out be the longest I would expect any dwarf cichlid to live. They also aren't any harder to care for than any other cichlid unless they are from garbage stock.

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Thanks guys, y'all helped me a lot. Since I have 2 Julii's already, and also 2 Peppered, I'll up those schools to five each. As for cichlids, I'm probably going to leave the Rubber Lip out as to not damage water quality and then for that fish add a male Apisto, but I'll still have to look into their care. Do Apsitos do better in pairs? Sorry if that question was already answered, but I just woke u and I'm still kinda droopy :).

Nils
 
Sterbai are from the Rio Guapore in Bolivia so keeping them in temps above mid to high 70s is not a good thing.

Sterbai are known to take higher temps than most other cory species. From Planet Catfish:

"24.0-28.0°C or 75.2-82.4°F

One species of Corydoras that does not seem to mind higher temperatures."

You're also a bit off on the life expectancy of good ram stock, 1-2 years is the life expectancy of a ram in the wild, likely due to predation. Wild and well bred German rams properly cared for will live 4+ years, the owner of a store near me had some in his display tank for 6 years which out be the longest I would expect any dwarf cichlid to live. They also aren't any harder to care for than any other cichlid unless they are from garbage stock.

I had never heard of them living for more than four years, so apparently I was wrong about that. But they are less forgiving of boo-boos and mediocre water parameters (and seem to have stricter dietary requirements) than many other cichlids. Again, not a fish for beginners.
 
Thanks guys, y'all helped me a lot. Since I have 2 Julii's already, and also 2 Peppered, I'll up those schools to five each. As for cichlids, I'm probably going to leave the Rubber Lip out as to not damage water quality and then for that fish add a male Apisto, but I'll still have to look into their care. Do Apsitos do better in pairs? Sorry if that question was already answered, but I just woke u and I'm still kinda droopy :).

Nils

Apistos will do fine in pairs or alone, you will get better color out of a male if a female is present though. There care really isn't any different from any other cichlid, just keep up on maintenance and feed them a balanced diet and they'll do well. Also don't worry if you can't get them to take prepared foods a lot of species won't touch it.

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Could I do 1 Male Apisto and 1 Female, Cories, a Rubber Lip, and some Harlequins?

Nils
 
Could I do 1 Male Apisto and 1 Female, Cories, a Rubber Lip, and some Harlequins?

Nils


I wouldn't put a Rubberlip in less than 30g. Plecos are poop machines. I'd get some Pitbull Plecos or Otos. Multiple Otos are cleaner than 1 Pleco IMHO.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=236

Depending on exact species, Rubber Lip Plecos need bigger tanks.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+837+1004&pcatid=1004


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I still vote panda garra, just got some in at my lfs, they look pretty sweet

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Nice new profile picture Brookster. Ok so I probably don't want to do a Pleco anymore, but I have no idea where I can get a Panda Garra cheap. I could probably have my LFS store order them in as well. Are they aggressive in any way? I hear that they need well oxygenated, fast flowing water. Would I need to install a powerhead or would they be fine in the average 20 gallon with an Aquaclear 50?

Nils
 
I would skip the panda garra, they like different conditions than the rest of your stock list. A Parotocinclus species would work, bigger and hardier than regular otos and don't produce the waste that plecos do.

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I would skip the panda garra, they like different conditions than the rest of your stock list. A Parotocinclus species would work, bigger and hardier than regular otos and don't produce the waste that plecos do.

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Ooops, hadn't realized they were that sensitive, nils, listen to gillie;)

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