Brown algae
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Tinadno
Aquarium Advice Regular
- Joined
- May 3, 2013
- Messages
- 56
You keep your lights on for 12 hrs? I would cut back to 9-10 hrs
Mebbid
Aquarium Advice Addict
9 - 10 hours at the most. The brown algae however is self limiting and usually goes away on its own.
>_< i don't feel like i've been keeping fish for almost a decade when i get on here lol #DatNewbFeelin. I'll cut back my lighting time lol thanks. The algae is already starting to go away on its own. I think i was just being impatient because i want to see my plants without them being brown heheh
Mebbid
Aquarium Advice Addict
The greatest cure for feeling like a noob in fish keeping is to spend ample amounts of time on this forum
flitabout
Aquarium Advice Addict
I don't think limiting the light will do much for brown algae. It's food is silicates that are common in new setups. It is totally self limiting and will run out of food and clear all on it's own.
Limiting the lights can stop other types of algae from showing up though and a lot of those can look like brown algae in their beginning stages. I learned that from personal experience. If you are worried about what can pop up on you, try bringing your lights down to 6 hours a day for 2 weeks if you don't have any algae you can bump it up by 15 minutes. Do that every 2 weeks until you find that sweet spot where you and your tank are happy. You can also do the siesta lighting some algae's need a longer photo period to develop. So if you have algae that needs at least a 5 hour photo period to develop and you cut it at 4 hours on, 3 hours of and then 4 on. The algae never gets the 5 hours it needs to develop and you get to enjoy a tank that's lights are on more and clean and clear.
Limiting the lights can stop other types of algae from showing up though and a lot of those can look like brown algae in their beginning stages. I learned that from personal experience. If you are worried about what can pop up on you, try bringing your lights down to 6 hours a day for 2 weeks if you don't have any algae you can bump it up by 15 minutes. Do that every 2 weeks until you find that sweet spot where you and your tank are happy. You can also do the siesta lighting some algae's need a longer photo period to develop. So if you have algae that needs at least a 5 hour photo period to develop and you cut it at 4 hours on, 3 hours of and then 4 on. The algae never gets the 5 hours it needs to develop and you get to enjoy a tank that's lights are on more and clean and clear.
Fishfur
Aquarium Advice Addict
And just for another point of view.. Nerite snails appear to find brown algae irresistible. They'll eat it anywhere they find it, but never damage live plants while they eat it. I find I get a bit of brown algae still in the uplift tube on the sponge filters. Now and then I take the tube off, drop it on the bottom and let the snails clean it. They do a far better job than I ever could, and enjoy themselves while they clean. They will climb into the tubes themselves to get at it, and once I had one get stuck at the tube bottom, between the tube wall and the filter rim. After I noticed he'd been there for a couple days, I popped the tube up and he dropped out, apparently unharmed. I find Nerites very useful, though I like all sorts of snails and keep many species of them.
Fishfur
Aquarium Advice Addict
Good luck with the Oto. Unfortunately, the sad truth is that a good number of these fish may not live very long. Because they are cheap, people tend to just buy more of them if they die.
It is best to buy them only after they have been in the store's tanks for at least a week, two or three is better. By then the weakest of them will have died, and only the strongest ones are left.
They are specialized algae eaters; the German's have a term for their diet 'aufwuchs'.. meaning the algae layers covering rocks or wood, plus the tiny animals that inhabit this algae layer which are eaten along with it. The fish rely on populations of gut bacteria to digest the high cellulose content of this diet, rather like a cow does. Once caught [ virtually 100% wild caught ], often the gut bacteria die off by the time they've made it to a store.
Then they get to a store and there's no food they recognize.. many won't eat algae tabs or any man made food, it's just not what they are used to. Even if they DO eat algae tabs, and look like they have full bellies, they can still be starving if the gut bacteria population hasn't recovered enough to do the work the fish need them to do.
If they manage to live two months in your tank, chances are they will do fine from then on. They can live quite a good number of years if they're getting enough to eat, but often they seem to end up eating primarily biofilm, if there isn't a decent amount of green algae for them. They prefer the soft types that cover rocks, not the more fibrous types. This is why they are not recommended for newly set up tanks, which don't have enough biofilm yet.
I grow algae for my Otos to eat, since the tanks have none to speak of. I put marble chips in a jar of tank water and leave it exposed to sunlight, outside if temperatures permit. The more light, the more algae will grow on the marble, and when they have a noticeable green covering on at least one side, I drop 'em in the tank. I take them out when they're white again, most often the next day, and back into the jar they go to grow more algae.
It is best to buy them only after they have been in the store's tanks for at least a week, two or three is better. By then the weakest of them will have died, and only the strongest ones are left.
They are specialized algae eaters; the German's have a term for their diet 'aufwuchs'.. meaning the algae layers covering rocks or wood, plus the tiny animals that inhabit this algae layer which are eaten along with it. The fish rely on populations of gut bacteria to digest the high cellulose content of this diet, rather like a cow does. Once caught [ virtually 100% wild caught ], often the gut bacteria die off by the time they've made it to a store.
Then they get to a store and there's no food they recognize.. many won't eat algae tabs or any man made food, it's just not what they are used to. Even if they DO eat algae tabs, and look like they have full bellies, they can still be starving if the gut bacteria population hasn't recovered enough to do the work the fish need them to do.
If they manage to live two months in your tank, chances are they will do fine from then on. They can live quite a good number of years if they're getting enough to eat, but often they seem to end up eating primarily biofilm, if there isn't a decent amount of green algae for them. They prefer the soft types that cover rocks, not the more fibrous types. This is why they are not recommended for newly set up tanks, which don't have enough biofilm yet.
I grow algae for my Otos to eat, since the tanks have none to speak of. I put marble chips in a jar of tank water and leave it exposed to sunlight, outside if temperatures permit. The more light, the more algae will grow on the marble, and when they have a noticeable green covering on at least one side, I drop 'em in the tank. I take them out when they're white again, most often the next day, and back into the jar they go to grow more algae.
Thanks for the info on the oto! I didn't know any of that. He is eating(a lot-_-), mostly off of the filter intake tube and rocks, not off the plants though.
Could doing a 100 percent water change with distilledor ro water help get rid of silicates? I've been using tap with dechlorinator for w/c and initial setup.
Another interesting piece of info, i've noticed the brown algae on my s. Repens only grows/settles on the leaves in full light and the parts that are shaded all day are clear and green as freshly grown grass. I think limiting my light has def helped because i had cut down to nine hours of light and it started to diminish but today and yesterday i left the lights on for 12-14 hours because i was out late and forgot to set the timer and it is much more prominent now.
Could doing a 100 percent water change with distilledor ro water help get rid of silicates? I've been using tap with dechlorinator for w/c and initial setup.
Another interesting piece of info, i've noticed the brown algae on my s. Repens only grows/settles on the leaves in full light and the parts that are shaded all day are clear and green as freshly grown grass. I think limiting my light has def helped because i had cut down to nine hours of light and it started to diminish but today and yesterday i left the lights on for 12-14 hours because i was out late and forgot to set the timer and it is much more prominent now.
Fishfur
Aquarium Advice Addict
If you use pure DI or RO water for any major or for regular water changes, you risk shocking, possibly killing your fish. That's because it would be such an extreme change in their water conditions.
DI and RO water havn't any minerals, and fish use a process called osmoregulation to balance their internal fluid pressure and mineral salt levels.
This process is even more apparent in marine fish, because of their salt water environment, but fresh water fish also have to balance their levels.
If you remember any of your high school science, osmosis is a process where water will pass through a water soluble membrane, from one side to the other, depending on the concentration of salts on each side of the membrane.
So osomotic regulation is how fish control their internal pressure and mineral levels, and they depend on their water staying pretty much the same always to be able to do this.
The silicates will get used up in a fairly short time anyway, so it's not worth worrying about. And as you've seen, duration of lighting can have quite an effect on plant growth, including algaes. Timers are not very costly and are a good way to make sure lights are on and off at the right times.
DI and RO water havn't any minerals, and fish use a process called osmoregulation to balance their internal fluid pressure and mineral salt levels.
This process is even more apparent in marine fish, because of their salt water environment, but fresh water fish also have to balance their levels.
If you remember any of your high school science, osmosis is a process where water will pass through a water soluble membrane, from one side to the other, depending on the concentration of salts on each side of the membrane.
So osomotic regulation is how fish control their internal pressure and mineral levels, and they depend on their water staying pretty much the same always to be able to do this.
The silicates will get used up in a fairly short time anyway, so it's not worth worrying about. And as you've seen, duration of lighting can have quite an effect on plant growth, including algaes. Timers are not very costly and are a good way to make sure lights are on and off at the right times.
thanks fishfur. Glad i saw your post before i did anything drastic lol. I'll just stick with dechlore tap water for now. I AM going to purchase an ro system when i start my reef in a few weeks(cough...months...cough...lazy...cough) so if i wanted to slowly change over, say, 1 gallon of ro plus 4 of tap each 50% w/c until I'm only doing w/c with ro. Would that hurt anything?Fishfur
Aquarium Advice Addict
If I understand what you're asking, and these are still fresh water fish we are talking about, then the bottom line is you cannot use only RO water, no matter how gradually you change it over. And I'm curious why you'd want to do that anyway, considering the cost and effort.
If for some reason you really wanted to, you CAN remineralize RO water with a product designed for the purpose.. I think Kent makes one.. another would be Salty shrimp. Mainly used by shrimp keepers, as you might guess from the name. That would be an expense & you have to mix up the change water and it's remineralizing product ahead of time, to have it ready for changes.
Reef keeping is quite different. You start with pure water, RO or DI, and add marine salt mix until it's at the right level. One big reason for this is that tap water has varying levels of TDS.. that means total dissolved solids. The solids are composed of many things, including metals & some toxins at varying levels that are supposed to be safe for us humans.
I've heard that many reef keepers use a TDS meter to make sure the water they start with measures ZERO TDS, either DI or RO. Then they can use the TDS meter to determine when the salt mix is right. They also use other measuring devices to ensure salinity is correct. I am NOT an experienced reef keeper. I've never kept salt tanks, but I am planning to try to raise shrimp larvae that need brackish water, so I have been looking into salt water lately, to learn how I'll have to do it.
Salt water for water changes has to be mixed a day or two ahead of time and left with an airstone or pump running to thoroughly mix it up and aerate it. I think something similar is needed when you mix up remineralizing products with RO to use it for fresh water. This is more often done by shrimp keepers who keep crystal and Bee shrimps. They're more sensitive to many things, and need fairly acidic pH, and a KH that's very low, if not zero.
If you have fish that like acidic, soft water, then using a carefully balanced mixture of RO and tap can give you the right parameters for those fish. But you'd test to make sure you had the proportions correct, and periodically test to make sure they are still the same, because water from the tap can change with rains or drought and other events.
Fish that do not need acidic, soft water and many, if not most of the inverts, such as snails, need a KH [ calcium hardness ] that's at least 4, and DH [ general hardness] that's at least 6, if memory serves me and a suitable pH level, to be able to osmoregulate properly or grow healthy shells, respectively. These mineral levels also help to keep your pH stable. Having stable parameters is the single best thing you can do for your fish no matter what kind they are.
I'd suggest you do some reading on aquarium water chemistry. It isn't the simplest topic but the very basics are not that difficult. Get a KH & GH test, that will tell you just how hard your water is, and how much calcium it has.
And if your fish are healthy in your tap water now, imagine how they'd fare in water that had zero minerals in it ? I'm not sure what happens.. it's not something I ever thought to check on, but I suspect the fish would quickly die. Possibly swell up 'til the internal pressure kills them.. If anyone knows for sure what happens, I'd be interested to hear it.
There is a disease called dropsy which some fish can get, and they do swell up, so much that their scales are pushed up until the fish looks like a pinecone. The eyes pop as well. The fish dies if you have not already euthanized it. These fish have lost the ability to regulate their internal body pressure, so they just keep swelling 'til the pressure on their organs kills them.
Tap water, though it's not pure, is normally somewhat hard and somewhat alkaline. It can differ from place to place and if you are on well water it can be very different indeed, but most city water is treated so that when it reaches your tap, it's pH is usually over 7 and the water itself is somewhat hard. Locally, our water is very hard, with a pH up to 7.8, sometimes 8. Despite that, most fish live in this water very well, including most that prefer it softer and acidic too. Those that really need it more acidic and soft, well, those keepers have to find ways to keep their water acidic and soft, which may be achieved by mixing tap and RO to the right balance.
If for some reason you really wanted to, you CAN remineralize RO water with a product designed for the purpose.. I think Kent makes one.. another would be Salty shrimp. Mainly used by shrimp keepers, as you might guess from the name. That would be an expense & you have to mix up the change water and it's remineralizing product ahead of time, to have it ready for changes.
Reef keeping is quite different. You start with pure water, RO or DI, and add marine salt mix until it's at the right level. One big reason for this is that tap water has varying levels of TDS.. that means total dissolved solids. The solids are composed of many things, including metals & some toxins at varying levels that are supposed to be safe for us humans.
I've heard that many reef keepers use a TDS meter to make sure the water they start with measures ZERO TDS, either DI or RO. Then they can use the TDS meter to determine when the salt mix is right. They also use other measuring devices to ensure salinity is correct. I am NOT an experienced reef keeper. I've never kept salt tanks, but I am planning to try to raise shrimp larvae that need brackish water, so I have been looking into salt water lately, to learn how I'll have to do it.
Salt water for water changes has to be mixed a day or two ahead of time and left with an airstone or pump running to thoroughly mix it up and aerate it. I think something similar is needed when you mix up remineralizing products with RO to use it for fresh water. This is more often done by shrimp keepers who keep crystal and Bee shrimps. They're more sensitive to many things, and need fairly acidic pH, and a KH that's very low, if not zero.
If you have fish that like acidic, soft water, then using a carefully balanced mixture of RO and tap can give you the right parameters for those fish. But you'd test to make sure you had the proportions correct, and periodically test to make sure they are still the same, because water from the tap can change with rains or drought and other events.
Fish that do not need acidic, soft water and many, if not most of the inverts, such as snails, need a KH [ calcium hardness ] that's at least 4, and DH [ general hardness] that's at least 6, if memory serves me and a suitable pH level, to be able to osmoregulate properly or grow healthy shells, respectively. These mineral levels also help to keep your pH stable. Having stable parameters is the single best thing you can do for your fish no matter what kind they are.
I'd suggest you do some reading on aquarium water chemistry. It isn't the simplest topic but the very basics are not that difficult. Get a KH & GH test, that will tell you just how hard your water is, and how much calcium it has.
And if your fish are healthy in your tap water now, imagine how they'd fare in water that had zero minerals in it ? I'm not sure what happens.. it's not something I ever thought to check on, but I suspect the fish would quickly die. Possibly swell up 'til the internal pressure kills them.. If anyone knows for sure what happens, I'd be interested to hear it.
There is a disease called dropsy which some fish can get, and they do swell up, so much that their scales are pushed up until the fish looks like a pinecone. The eyes pop as well. The fish dies if you have not already euthanized it. These fish have lost the ability to regulate their internal body pressure, so they just keep swelling 'til the pressure on their organs kills them.
Tap water, though it's not pure, is normally somewhat hard and somewhat alkaline. It can differ from place to place and if you are on well water it can be very different indeed, but most city water is treated so that when it reaches your tap, it's pH is usually over 7 and the water itself is somewhat hard. Locally, our water is very hard, with a pH up to 7.8, sometimes 8. Despite that, most fish live in this water very well, including most that prefer it softer and acidic too. Those that really need it more acidic and soft, well, those keepers have to find ways to keep their water acidic and soft, which may be achieved by mixing tap and RO to the right balance.
Sigh...again I feel like a moron lol. Thanks for the info fishfur. I was only going to do it because i am getting an ro system and thought it would be better for the tank. If tap is ok then i see no reason for me to go through all the hassle and added steps of 'remineralizing' ro water. I am going to start researching more in depth on the subject of aquarium water chemistry. Probably get a few books on other subjects too while I'm at it. Maybe then i won't always ask such stupid questions lol.
Fishfur
Aquarium Advice Addict
Questions are only stupid if you already know the answer . So no worries.
At least you asked before you made any drastic changes, so the fish will be fine.
I can understand, if you're not very familiar with water chemistry and the needs of fish, why you might think using RO water would be better. Just happens that what might be better for humans is not necessarily better for fish.
. So no worries. At least you asked before you made any drastic changes, so the fish will be fine.
I can understand, if you're not very familiar with water chemistry and the needs of fish, why you might think using RO water would be better. Just happens that what might be better for humans is not necessarily better for fish.
