Build thread - 180 gallon - final tank pics added 7/22

[Scoot]

The tank is installed - I didnt' get a pic of it in position, but here it is on the custom cabinet base... it took 4 of us to lift it up. The top they built is extremely flat and perfectly level, but I still used a thin layer of blue fan-fold foam.

You can see the two dual outlets I had installed, right where the ballasts will sit in the (very large) canopy.
The cabinet panels will go on in a few days, as well as the canopy. Today

I got the holes cut for the drains/returns today. Keeping the rubber washers on the bottom of the overflow tubes is tricky, I need to use a drop of silicone to hold them on or something.

I also removed the "All-Glass" sign from the front

(later update)

The tank is set. The panels for the front and back are onsite, and going on first thing in the AM, cause the staining guys are ready to go. By tomorrow this time, it should look pretty much done, just missing the sanding and laquer coats.

I need to tape off the top, front, and sides of the tank before they do that.

I hope I got the bulkheads tight enough -the tool included with the overflow kit couldn't reach up in there very well, but I got them as tight as I could. They seem solid.

 

[Scoot]

Bottled drinking water is out of the question. $8 and up for 5G of RO filtered water. Well over $300 to fill a 180. No way. For that much cash, I'll rent a flatbed from Lowe's for $30 and haul a couple barrels of my own RO/DI water out there, or wait for water to be available on-site.

Update later - the tank is filled. I got lucky and a water truck was on-site - I had to take advantage of the moment.

I've got some prime, a heater, and a smaller filter I'm taking out later to get the water ready for salt.

 

[Scoot]

Salt, heater (I need 2x300W), 6 jumbo raw shrimp, a couple powerheads (I need more) has all been added.

I only added enough mix for 160G - so I need to get another bucket, but the LFS was out of Reef Crystals.

Still no circulation via the built-in drains/returns. The specs on the sheet said the overflows were 1" ID vinyl tubing inserts - they're not, they're apparently 1 1/4" ID, so I have to return the 28" of 1" for the 1 1/4". I'll get a foot of it first this time to make sure.

I'm running all this off a temporary extension cord (a heavy-duty one), as there isn't yet power in the house, except for a single box. I'll need to get another line before adding the 2x300W heaters. Right now I just have a 50W, which I doubt will come close to being enough, unless it really warms up.

The returns are definately 3/4" bulkheads/inserts.

It was fun dumping a full bucket of salt in all at once

The canopy doors are actually two pairs of doors, hinged in the middle, so when I swing them open, the entire front of the aquarium is accessible, with no dividers ("styles") in the way.

I need to seal up the top of the tank for a couple days, because they'll be staining/sanding/varnishing soon. Rather lose air exchange than get that stuff in my water.

Also.

To save a few bucks, I'm thinking about doing a single drain line to the basement, to the sump, then of course a single return - and doing a second line as a close circuit flow. I'd take the overflow from one side, return it to the other side, with, say, a mag 9.5. That'd be around 700GPH roughly I think (off the top of my head).

Then I'd take the other overflow line to the basement (each should do about 600GPH), to the fuge, then return that to the other side.

I'm really under a budget crunch. Even the salt is getting to be an issue

I could save a couple hundred bucks on a pump and return tubing.

Thoughts?

 

[Creamhorses]

Wow! Quite a deal to build a palace around a fish tank!! :^)
Thanks for taking the time to tell your story. Wanna see the final set up with lights and all.
Congrats!

CH

 

[tecwzrd]

Going to the basement because you want more room or easier to make pwc?

You should have plenty of space under the tank for sump/fuge/auto-top-off. Your pumps are going to put off a little heat as well (<3 degrees) and doing a closed loop will cut down on tank clutter, sounds like a plan.

 

[Scoot]

The tubing problem was my fault. The 3/4" bulkhead is for 3/4" tubing, but the 1" bulkhead is for 1 1/4" tubing. I assumed it was for 1" tubing, if I'd RTFM I would have seen this.

Tecwzrd, I have many reasons for draining to a basement setup - cooling, much more room (I'm going to have a 55G fuge, EuroReef RS180 skimmer, RO/DI with a 45G resevoir for mixing, auto-top-off, PWC's, etc. Noise is an issue. Smell from a busy protein skimmer is an issue (I've smelled mine occasionally, walking in the room - and this is in a dining room!). Power is an issue. Fuge lighting would add more heat - more than a couple degrees.

Add a closed loop pump, skimmer pump, a UV pump and UV, and a return pump, and it's going to add too much heat, that during the summer I'll need a chiller.

As it is, I'm going to be working to pull heat away from 2 dual MH ballasts in the canopy and 2x250 + 2x175MH bulbs.

I've been doing PWC's in my current dining room for 18 months. No way I'll do it in a brand-new house. I don't think anyone would want to hand-carry 70 gallons of water to do a 25% PWC (i'm counting sump), and there is just nowhere around where the tank to put replacement water. Dragging a hose to/from the tank is out of the question. Been doing all that long enough. Doesn't matter how careful you are, water always gets splashed or spilled somewhere.

I spent a year with the equipment under the stand here - and it was never a nice experience. Nowhere for cables, heat, trying to plumb everything in a tight space - other than the long plumbing runs and the return pump requirement, I just have no interest in going that route again.

I've never once planned to run any equipment under the cabinet, and have planned for a basement setup since the blueprint stage of the house. I've got a floor drain right where the basement setup is going, as well as a 4" PVC drain I had installed, and a large sink, and and my RO/DI water source.

So, while it would certainly make something easier, tecwzrd, there's just no way Plus, the way this stand is built, there's honestly not that much room under it. Good height, but front to back is very shallow because of the reinforcing 2x4's.

 

[tecwzrd]

Basement it is then Is anything else going to be in the basement besides what you mentioned?

I was confused about the following though.

To save a few bucks, I'm thinking about doing a single drain line to the basement, to the sump, then of course a single return

Were you considering two drain lines and two return lines with multiple pumps for redundancy? It could save slightly but having peace of mind that water is still moving in case one pump breaks is nice to have also.

 

[Scoot]

I was going to run both drains to the basement (the tank has 2 sets of Megaflow drains/returns), and pump two separate lines back up, to avoid the issue of having a single return pump fail.

The closed loop would just save money on a 2nd big return pump, and the extra plumbing. Plus, I can probably get some pretty wicked water flow in a closed loop under the tank, without buying an expensive pump.

Let's see, the RO, the resevoir (45G trash can) for pre-mixing, the RO holding tank (3G), the fuge, skimmer, return pump(s?), heaters, my home-built top-off system, lights on the fuge of course. All the chemicals, salt, tools, accessories, would be there too.

 

[cmor1701d]

Scoot,

I know this is easy for me to say, but don't make compromises now that you'll regret later. If you want to do the closed loop now, do it with the intention of adding the second return pump later.

I don't get the 45g for pre-mixing. Is that for your pwc's? What are you using for your ATO? Just the 3g holding tank? I use a 45g brute trash for amy ato water. I only fill it every 2-3 weeks. I believe that's better for the rodi system as opposed to having it constantly cycle on and off. By making large batches I am able to flush the membrane before and after making a batch thereby prolonging the life of the membrane.

 

[Scoot]

I'd still be able to add the second line and second return from the basement at any time. But I think a closed loop would make it easier to get some serious water flow, and actually approach that magical 1 turnover number, without heavy-duty, power-hungry pumps in the basement. That also will back off the water flowing through the sump, which I'm worried would be a bit much at 1500GPH.

Yes - the 45G is what I use now for pre-mixing SW for PWC's. It makes PWC's fun (almost).

I pump out about 30G into a drain right behind the tank (4" PVC drain), then pump in (slowly) enough to fill it back up. The whole thing is mess-free, and almost hands-off.

My ATO is tied directly to my RODI system, using a float valve mounted in my sump. Not the fanciest solution, but it works - as long as my skimmer doesn't go nuts.

There's no on/off strain on my RODI because I have a 3G tank on it, any top-off water comes from that without the RODI switching on (I can tell when it's on cause I can see water flowing through the DI cartridge). The auto-shut-off valve on the filter doesn't kick on until I've drained about a half from the 3G tank.

I have a float-valve on my 45g resevoir too, so it refills automatically whenever I do a PWC. A tiny bit evaporates I'm sure, cause I've got a pump in there circulating water to keep PH up, and to mix salt, but again, any water comes out of my 3G holding tank.

Basically, it's completely hands-off for ATO's, and a 10 minute job for PWC's every two weeks.

It's worth replacing an RO cartridge more frequently if this method is wearing on it more, to not have to monitor water levels, or resevoir levels.

Of course, I'm coming from doing it by hand, with buckets of old water, and buckets of new water, in front of the tank, for a year. Anything would seem better than that

 

[cmor1701d]

That setup sounds perfect. I just wish I could run my overflows and returns to/from the basement or a back room and have that kind of setup.

 

[lando]

8O 8O 8O
WOW scoot...this is really coming together! It looks absoultly awesome! What a nice job. I cannot wait for further pics of the progress. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Scoot]

I found a guy who resells PFO stuff - a new dual 250W MH ballast, with bulb of my choice, reflectors, mogul socket w/quick disconnect, for under $400... that kinda seals the deal on lighting.

That'll give me 2x175W plus 2x250W of lighting, for a total of 850W of lighting, or 4.7W/gallon. Not extremely high, but I've been running with slightly less on my 75, so my anemone's should be pleased.

Not sure how I'll arrange the lights... 175 - 250 - 250 - 175, or 250 - 175 - 175 - 250, or some other variation. Ideas? The nice thing with PFO ballasts is that I just have to switch cables (and bulbs) to try different combo's.

I finally got the temp up to 78 today, with both a 300W and a 50W heater.

 

[ellisz]

You are going to use one of the overflows are a CL? I guess you are going to cut a hole lower in the overflow box to feed it?

I think you should just do 3 MH's. I have 3 250's over mine and it is plenty. Not even sure how to fit 4?

You could always plumb a 1.5" and a 2" pipe up to the tank and they Y the 1.5" for the 3/4 bulkheads and Y the 2" for the 1" bulkheads.

Cabinetry looks nice!

 

[Scoot]

ellisz...

On the closed loop - no need to cut anything - the tank has 2 built-in overflows (All-Glass "Megaflows"). I can take the drain line from one side and pump it to the return on the other. Plus, the megaflow overflow kits are adjustable height - I can drop the standpipe for the close loop lower in the overflow, to make sure it has water.

2x175 and 1x250 isn't much light on a 180G. With the tank being 6 feet long, I can easily fit 4 MH's reflectors in there. PFO has all sizes of them, starting at 12". Even the 18" reflectors would just work (as I have just a bit over 6' in the canopy). With a closed loop I can get some serious water movement without an expensive pump.

And, I'll have circulation, even if one pump fails. I've always planned to have two pumps for this reason.

 

[ellisz]

On the closed loop - no need to cut anything - the tank has 2 built-in overflows (All-Glass "Megaflows"). I can take the drain line from one side and pump it to the return on the other. Plus, the megaflow overflow kits are adjustable height - I can drop the standpipe for the close loop lower in the overflow, to make sure it has water.

But you will limited on the flow just like you would on a return pump. Each overflow is rated at 600 gph. If you use the drain line on an overflow to feed th CL pump, I think the pump would have to be 600 gph or less. If the CL pump is pumping more than the overflow won't be able to keep up.

And, I'll have circulation, even if one pump fails. I've always planned to have two pumps for this reason.

If the pump down in the basement stops, then the water level in the tank will drop to lower level that will be below the overflow. If this happens, your CL pump will run dry as it will no be getting water. I would drill a hole lower in the overflow side and allow a lower feed for the CL pump so it won't be dependent on a higher water level.

2x175's and 2x250' will generate a LOT of heat. Are you having any supplimental lights or are you using all MH's?

 

[Scoot]

I'm aware of that. That's why I'm looking for either a Mag 7 or 9.5, or a Quiet One 3000.

A Mag 7, with a 90 degree bend and 3 feet of head height will be 400 and change - a Mag 9.5 with the head pressure will do right around 600 (according to the head height calculator I used). If the pump is doing a bit more, I can restrict the backflow a little by adding a join in the return plumbing, or even a checkvalve, which would slow things up a bit.

Closed loop won't run dry - as I said, I'll adjust the overflow standpipe for the closed loop to be lower than the other. The standpipe that drains to the basement would run dry first.

Are you familiar with the all-glass megaflow overflow setup? Each one has an adjustable standpipe. As far as I can figure, if I have the closed loop overflow/drain lower than the other, the closed loop will always get water first.

Oh - and on the lighting. I do have a set of 4x65W PC lights I might use. Might, I haven't decided. With a mix of 10K and 14 or 15K lights on the MH's, I think I should be in good shape.

The canopy is built into a wall with 2 cold air returns, so I'm not concerned much about heat - I did a lot of planning for the aquarium when we were designing this house. Everything I could think of is covered. A drain in the floor in the basement where the sump is going, a PVC drain there too, a big washtub sink, my RO water hookup (which comes from the house filter), 4 outlets in the canopy, reinforced floor to handle the weight of the main tank, blah blah blah.

My 75G is fine with 2 MH's, with a single cooling fan - I can keep the water at 80 degrees, but I run it at 82.

I plan to add a couple cooling fans to pull in outside air into the canopy.

 

[ellisz]

Not doubting your planning, I just dont think the CL will work? I am not a plumbing expert though so I could be wrong. I had a 75g with the megaflow and I have a AGA 180 with the dual megaflows. If your system is flowing with a return in the basement and a mag running the closed loop. The basement pump goes down. Water will drain to the top of the overflow assuming you have a siphon break ... could be lower. Now the the Mag is still running. Will water still be spilling over the other overflow? I question this. The CL does not add water volume, it just moves it around. If so, you will be fine. Other wise the overflow will be sucked dry. Maybe I just don't fully understand

I had 2 250's on my 75 with 2 exhaust fans and a intake fan on a basement sump. My office got pretty warm and that was where the tank was. I have 3 exhaust fans on the 180 with the tank and sump in the basement. I keep a stable 78 with 3 250's, 2x54 T5 and 2x55 PC. Basements are great for heat control! My total system is 300+ gallons so that helps as well. I am sure you can put 4 MH's under the canopy, I just think it is not needed. My electric bill is bad enogh, LOL

I am sure you will make it work though. Everything looks great so far.

 

[Scoot]

My understanding (or guess) is that with the closed loop standpipe (#1) set lower than the standpipe (#2) that drains to the basement sump, the #2 standpipe would break siphon before the #1 would, allowing the closed loop to continue cycling. Regardless of where the overflow point into each overflow "box" is, the standpipe is going to be the determining factor of when each side's overflow will break siphon.

If the #2 is set an inch higher (just for argument's sake), it will break siphon an inch's worth of water before #1 would.

It's worth a try Like I said, it's a lot easier to get 600GPH flow through a closed loop than pumping from a 16' head height. If anything, a closed loop would let me get water circulating NOW, before I have the basement filtration set up.

Worst case, if it doesn't work, I buy another pump and some more plumbing.

 

[Scoot]

I've sent our home builder the list of equipment to order this week.

A EuroReef 180 skimmer, a pair of Gen-X PCX 40's, 150 pounds of base rock from ThatPetPlace.com (I have about 80 pounds of good, well-matured live rock to add to this), and the 2x250W MH PFO setup. If 2x175 + 2x250 is too much, I can always stop using one of the 175's, but with a 24" deep tank, I don't think 175's will cut it.

Now I need to get an updated quote from Glass-Cages for a custom sump - 55G, with a skimmer area, return area, and a good-sized fuge. It was $220 last time I got a quote about 4 months ago.

Going to get sand from eBay. I've bought the 30 pound bags of sand there a couple times, and have been pretty happy. Shipping from those vendors are far cheaper than the major dealers (8 to 10 bucks per 30 pounds). Going to get about 120 pounds, plus the sand I have now.

Oh - and a couple snails that snuck into the new tank with the couple rocks I moved from my current tank have somehow survived, even though the water can't be too great.

And the 6 jumbo shrimp I added to the tank are starting to fall apart. Ewww. I wish now I'd put them in a bag as somebody above suggested.