Can't keep ph stabilized

[rehobothBeachBum]

Hello All,

I started an aquarium in August of this year. The water out of the tap in Wash DC is around 7.8. Using PH down, I got it around 7.0 when starting the aquarium. However, it keeps falling to 6.0 or below. (Ammonia and Nitrite are zero, Nitrate is about 20).

Here's what I was doing until last week: I started with about two to four inches of gravel. I was feeding three times a day. I do 25% water changes twice a month. I have two pieces of drift wood (purchased at LFS). I have two live plants.

The aquarium is a 26 gallon bowfront. I have two dwarf gouramis, three zebra danios, four diamond tetras, and five neon tetras.

During last week's water change, I notice little white squiggly worms. After researching what they were, I realized that I had too much gravel. So I've removed about half of it, so now it is only one to two inches deep. I also started only feeding once per day.

Any other suggestions to keep my water stablized around 7.0 without using chemicals?

Thanks!

 

[HN1]

IMO, pH down and similar products are a waste of money and do nothing but create headaches like the one you're fighting now. Most commonly available fish can acclimate to just about any pH in a reasonable range. I'd recommend you ween your tank off of pH altering products and allow the fish to adapt. We have 6.4 source water here and keep everything from wild caught SA fish to Tang cichlids (which just bred). pH is not as important as many people would have you believe.

 

[mfdrookie516]

7.8 is just fine for almost any fish. my tap is 7.8, and so are all of my tanks. like HN1 said, ph down is not a good option. It will bring it down, but alot of times it will jump around after using it and you'll end up with a yo-yo'ing ph which is NOT good for fish.

 

[Blueiz]

I totally agree with the above posts, they pretty much say it all.

 

[rehobothBeachBum]

7.8 is just fine for almost any fish. my tap is 7.8, and so are all of my tanks. like HN1 said, ph down is not a good option. It will bring it down, but alot of times it will jump around after using it and you'll end up with a yo-yo'ing ph which is NOT good for fish.

My ph is now 6.0 (and falling). After a water change it (of course) goes up, but within a week, it falls back to 6.0. I've heard that a ph that is two low will start to burn the gills of the fish. I've also heard that drift wood lowers ph. Is it possible that two pieces are too much for the aquarium?

Thanks!

 

[HN1]

Have you tested your tap after letting it sit out for 24 hrs? Chances are that it is not as high as you think once it gases off. If you want to buffer it up some, the safest way is to do it naturally by adding rock or running CC in a filter. That said, it's still not needed IMO.

 

[mfdrookie516]

i seriously doubt that driftwood is lowering the ph that much... from what i understand, it may lower it a few tenths, but not whole numbers... are you using a full hood or glass tops? do you have plenty of surface agitation up at the top for the oxygen exchange? Can you test your tap ph, then put a few gallons in a bucket and let it sit overnight, then test again?

EDIT: HN1, posted as i was typing... pretty much on the same page looks like

 

[rehobothBeachBum]

i seriously doubt that driftwood is lowering the ph that much... from what i understand, it may lower it a few tenths, but not whole numbers... are you using a full hood or glass tops? do you have plenty of surface agitation up at the top for the oxygen exchange? Can you test your tap ph, then put a few gallons in a bucket and let it sit overnight, then test again?

EDIT: HN1, posted as i was typing... pretty much on the same page looks like

I have a full hood, use an 18" air stone for eight hours a day (it's on a timer with my light), and have an Aqueon 30 filter (200 gallons / hour).

I'll do what you suggest to test the water...

Thanks!

 

[rehobothBeachBum]

Have you tested your tap after letting it sit out for 24 hrs? Chances are that it is not as high as you think once it gases off. If you want to buffer it up some, the safest way is to do it naturally by adding rock or running CC in a filter. That said, it's still not needed IMO.

So you don't think that 6.0 is too low? What worries me is that after every water change the ph tests low, then I use ph up to raise it to around 6.8, but within a week, it's back down to 6.0. What I'm hearing is that I should not be concerned if 6.0 is where it wants to be.

 

[mfdrookie516]

ph up is not a buffer, but more of a temporary fix. if you test your water after it sits in a bucket overnight, and it is the same as straight from the tap, there is something going on causing it to drop. if it is low, like it is in the tank, its not that bad, but if you are really worried about it, crushed coral or some sort of african cichlid buffer could be used to raise it and keep it raised.

 

[Blueiz]

At my old residence my PH was at least 6, all of my fish did fine. If you want to raise it, used cc, as HN1 said. mdfrookie516 hit the nail on the head in describing ph up.

 

[rehobothBeachBum]

ph up is not a buffer, but more of a temporary fix. if you test your water after it sits in a bucket overnight, and it is the same as straight from the tap, there is something going on causing it to drop. if it is low, like it is in the tank, its not that bad, but if you are really worried about it, crushed coral or some sort of african cichlid buffer could be used to raise it and keep it raised.

OK, so I did the overnight bucket test. Water out of my tap tests at 7.6 ph. After overnight in a bucket, the water still tests at 7.6.

From what I read about the cause of Planaria Worms (over feeding, and too much gravel), I've reduced my feedings to once per day, and removed gravel to about one inch. I'm going to do weekly water changes/gravel vacs to see if that stabilizes my ph.

Thanks again to everyone that posted!

 

[mfdrookie516]

That is odd that the ph stayed the same overnight. I would suspect there is something in the tank causing the ph to drop so low. I wouldnt think the DW could drop it that low, but you could put a piece of it in a bucket with water and see if the ph drops overnight. If it does, that would be wierd, if not, its probably something like poor oxygen exchange. Have you tried leaving the hood off the tank? All of my tanks are open on top after i had some ph issues with the glass lids i had on one of my tanks

 

[jsoong]

If doing lots of water changes to get rid of the pH down/up & extra cleaning of the gravel, etc don't stabilized the pH, you might want to check the KH of the tap water. <Go to the water co & look for alkalinity, carbonate hardness, bicarbonate/carbonate levels or get a KH test kit.>

If the water had been limed by the water co (adding CaO or Ca(OH)2 to increase pH to prevent pipe corrosion), you can get pH of 7.6 like your water, yet have no buffering capacity & causes pH crashes. The solution is to add crushed coral or another carbonate source to increase the KH to buffer the water.

 

[rehobothBeachBum]

That is odd that the ph stayed the same overnight. I would suspect there is something in the tank causing the ph to drop so low. I wouldnt think the DW could drop it that low, but you could put a piece of it in a bucket with water and see if the ph drops overnight. If it does, that would be wierd, if not, its probably something like poor oxygen exchange. Have you tried leaving the hood off the tank? All of my tanks are open on top after i had some ph issues with the glass lids i had on one of my tanks

After yesterday's 50% water change/gravel vacuum, the ph was at around 7.0 (up from 6.0). I tested today and it has already dropped to 6.8. I've taken your excellent advice and removed both pieces of driftwood and placed them in a bucket. I'll test the aquarium tomorrow (w/o driftwood) and the water in the bucket with the driftwood and report back...

 

[rehobothBeachBum]

If doing lots of water changes to get rid of the pH down/up & extra cleaning of the gravel, etc don't stabilized the pH, you might want to check the KH of the tap water. <Go to the water co & look for alkalinity, carbonate hardness, bicarbonate/carbonate levels or get a KH test kit.>

If the water had been limed by the water co (adding CaO or Ca(OH)2 to increase pH to prevent pipe corrosion), you can get pH of 7.6 like your water, yet have no buffering capacity & causes pH crashes. The solution is to add crushed coral or another carbonate source to increase the KH to buffer the water.

I tested the aquarium tonight and GH tests at about 75 and KH tests between 10 and 30.

So it looks like the KH is way to low? Is adding crushed coral is the best way to stabilize KH?

Thanks!

 

[jsoong]

That KH (in ppm I assume) is much lower than it should be for the pH value. Your water co. must have doctored the water.

Crush coral is the most fool proof way of buffering the water. You can add a large amount of cc, but only enough will dissolve in to maintain equilibrium (pH or 7.8 or so). More will dissolve in with water changes or as the buffer is used up, so the KH & pH will remain stable. This is a set & forget system (until all the cc is gone & you need to add more - usu. a couple times a year).

the only drawback is if you do a large (>25% or so) pwc. Because it takes a day or so for the cc to dissolve in, doing large pwc might cause a big pH shift. Generally, you will need to doctor your change water with baking soda (NaHCO3) if you have to do a big emergency water change. However, since your water co already doctored the water to 7.6, you might not even need to do this. <But do check the pH of your change water, as water co. is know to alter their water doctoring procedures with the season, etc.>

Some reading to get you started:
Beginner FAQ: Water Chemistry

 

[rehobothBeachBum]

That KH (in ppm I assume) is much lower than it should be for the pH value. Your water co. must have doctored the water.

Crush coral is the most fool proof way of buffering the water. You can add a large amount of cc, but only enough will dissolve in to maintain equilibrium (pH or 7.8 or so). More will dissolve in with water changes or as the buffer is used up, so the KH & pH will remain stable. This is a set & forget system (until all the cc is gone & you need to add more - usu. a couple times a year).

the only drawback is if you do a large (>25% or so) pwc. Because it takes a day or so for the cc to dissolve in, doing large pwc might cause a big pH shift. Generally, you will need to doctor your change water with baking soda (NaHCO3) if you have to do a big emergency water change. However, since your water co already doctored the water to 7.6, you might not even need to do this. <But do check the pH of your change water, as water co. is know to alter their water doctoring procedures with the season, etc.>

Some reading to get you started:
Beginner FAQ: Water Chemistry

jsoong - Thanks for the info. My only concern is that my tank is mostly a tetra tank. I thought tetras preferred ph of below 7.0 If using crushed coral buffers the water, but raises the ph to 7.8, won't the tetras be unhappy?

Thanks for the post about water chemistry. I will read it...

 

[rehobothBeachBum]

I have Seachem Acid Buffer (lowers pH by converting KH into CO2) and Alkaline Buffer (Raises pH by increasing KH - what I've been referring to as PH up). The packaging says that when used together, the water will be buffered and the PH stabilized. Any thoughts on using these two products to stabilize my ph and increase my buffer?

The hard part is figuring out how much to use. My Jungle six-test strips are in ppm and the dosing instructions on the Seachem products are in dKH and meq/L.

 

[HN1]

I have Seachem Acid Buffer (lowers pH by converting KH into CO2) and Alkaline Buffer (Raises pH by increasing KH - what I've been referring to as PH up). The packaging says that when used together, the water will be buffered and the PH stabilized. Any thoughts on using these two products to stabilize my ph and increase my buffer?

The hard part is figuring out how much to use. My Jungle six-test strips are in ppm and the dosing instructions on the Seachem products are in dKH and meq/L.

I'd go with the CC (if anything). Adding these products is likely to make your pH fluctuate. A consistent value is much more important than a specific number.