Christmas moss help?

[okapizebra]

I got christmas moss over a month ago and tied it onto this rock cave thing in my ten gal tank. So far, all it has done is sit there and now it is beginning to die. I have two ten watt CFLs for lighting and I dose no ferts or CO2. My temp is always between 76 and 78. I ordered seachem flourish excel and it is on its way in the mail if that will help anything.

I ordered it from ebay and it took like 3 weeks to get here. Could this have damaged it beyond repair? The majority of it is still alive. Or is the temperature in my tank too high for this moss? I can't get my tanks any cooler here in FL. If this is the case, what moss will live and grow in this temperature?

 

[fort384]

What size tank? What lighting period are you using? What is the color temp of the bulbs?

Temp betwen 76-78 should be fine.

What is your nitrate testing at?

 

[okapizebra]

Ten gal. Lights are usually on from 9am-pm. They are 6500k bulbs.

Just tested my nitrate and it was 30ppm. (was a bit darker than 20 but not as dark as 40). However I did re home two platies yesterday and replaced them with 3 neon tetras so I imagine the nitrate will be lower overall after my next water change.

 

[bettaowner]

Many mosses, mainly species that form amazing structures ( christmas tree moss), require low temp to form unique designs so 76 to 78 as stated above would be wise.

 

[okapizebra]

I'm not exactly looking for amazing structures (would definitely be a plus though lol), but I want it to grow and at least not die as some is. I'm not sure I really understand what you mean, though. My temperature is already 76 to 78.

 

[aqua_chem]

What size tank is this?

 

[okapizebra]

Ten gallon.

 

[okapizebra]

Here's pics from when I first got it and how it looks now.

 

[Patrice]

This plants suppose to be hard to kill. When i had mine, from ebay, once in tanks, they interior was dying brown and new moss from the point start to spread. Nitrate is ok even 15ppm is ok. Add phosphate, mg, and iron if you don't have any. Actually, you need to add all your fertilizers when you have plants. You are maybe adding tab water directly in you aquarium. i had this plants between 22c and 28c and nothing dyes.

All you plants look yellow, your plants are not absorbing your fertilizer (if any).

 

[okapizebra]

I'm not adding tap water directly to my aquarium. I condition it first.

I'm not using any fertilizers, actually. I have relatively easy plants so I assumed I could get by with none... I have a bottle of seachem flourish excel I will begin dosing monday. But I thought moss would be easy? I don't have any micro or macro fertilizers, but if you think that is necessary, I may start dosing. It just seems so expensive and I don't have a lot of money to spend.

 

[Patrice]

It really depend of your tap water. If its more like filtered water(nothing in it) then you probably will have problem. If its from a wells, good chance that you don't need to add fert. From normal tap water, usaly that works for what you do. There no real solution for your problem other then adding fertilizer. You can bye aquarium powder fertilizers for very cheap. And that will last you for ever. I would add a small bottle of liquid fert from the shop and bye they powder fert. If your excel is gona take a week to have it, try co2 injection bottled.

Also, maybe you local pet shop can tell you what's in you water, that's will give you a general concept of what you have or don't.

 

[okapizebra]

I've tested my tap water before. I know it has no traces of metals, nitrates, nitrites, or ammonia but I'm not sure about phosphates or other trace elements. Do you think I need to add micro or macro nutrients? Is yellow and dying plants a sign of a specific nutrient?

 

[fort384]

I wouldn't go down the fertilizer path just yet. I would consider a lighting deficiency. 2 10 watt CFLs would provide very little PAR for your plants, especially near the bottom. Xmas moss is a little more demanding for light than java moss. Can you fit some higher wattage CFLs in your fixture?

I am not saying the tank wouldn't benefit from some minor additions of a trace mix and excel (though the excel probably won't help the moss much). I just don't think that is going to solve your issue.

I wouldn't worry much about fertilizer additions until you see increased N uptake.

 

[okapizebra]

What is PAR? The hood can hold up to 50 watts. I thought 2 watts per gallon was medium lights? No plants are on the bottom either. The moss is at least 4 inches off the bottom and this is a ten gallon we are talking about.

I assume with the addition of excel the nutrient uptake will be increased. Is this true? I'm going to dose my first time tomorrow, and then dose every other day. Will this be enough?

 

[fort384]

PAR is Photosynthetically Available Radiation. 4 inches is essentially the bottom. Using WPG is not a good idea when talking CFLs or a 10 gallon tank. It is just not applicable.

That will be a good dosing schedule for excel.

 

[fort384]

To illustrate my point:

Here is one of my 5.5 gallon tanks with 27W of PC lighting.

Here is another of my 5.5's with 27W of PC lighting.

I am not saying you need to go as high with the lighting as I have on my small tanks, but rather, showing you that I got great growth with more wattage and half the the volume of your tank. Granted, I was injecting CO2 on these tanks, but if you were to bump your lighting up to some higher powered CFLs, you could get away without injecting CO2 so long as you are dosing excel regularly.

Using WPG on a small tank or large tank doesn't work. Let's saying you have a 5 gal tank. 1 WPG on a 30 would be enough to grow low light and some medium light plants. But 1 WPG on a 5 wouldn't grow much of anything. The same with larger tanks... if you have a 120 gallon tank, and you put 3 WPG on it, you would cook everything in the tank.

It also breaks down rather quickly when you look at the PAR readings between different types of bulbs. CFLs are a great economical way to light smaller tanks, but they are very inefficient, especially when compared to a T5HO or PC setup. 20W of CFL lighting would provide far less PAR than a theoretical 20W of T5HO.

WPG is a good baseline for getting an idea on mid sized tanks... but it just doesn't work for a 10 gallon tank with CFLs.

 

[okapizebra]

Wow, so much I did not know. Thanks for all your great info. What do you think I should upgrade my lighting to? And by doing that and dosing excel, won't it be necessary to add ferts? If so, how do I go about that? I'm on a rather tight budget.

And as a side question if I may, do you think I could even get something to carpet my tank with higher lights + excel/maybe ferts?

 

[fort384]

I would go with 2 ~17-20W CFLs. That ought to give you quite a bit more PAR, and I still think you would be fine without injecting CO2, so long as you keep up the excel.

I don't think you would see a great need for ferts, but all tanks with live plants do eventually bottom out on something if the plants are growing. I would consider adding something like flourish comprehensive or API Leafzone. Both are a good trace/K mix for low and medium light tanks. I doubt even with more CFL wattage you will see a huge need for adding additional N or P in the tank, especially if you keep the tank stocked and are feeding it. Fish waste and fish food provide plenty of N and P to the water in medium and low light tanks in my experience.

You can absolutely achieve a carpet effect in your tank with a bit higher lighting, and using excel and some minor fert additions. Excel is a carbon supplement (NOT liquid CO2 as it is often described), but it is quite effective for most plants in lieu of CO2 injection. As an aside, it is also an excellent prophylaxis for algae.

 

[fort384]

You might find this article I wrote recently helpful in figuring out fertilization. It covers the basics.
Introduction to Fertilizing the Planted Tank - Aquarium Advice

 

[aqua_chem]

Anything above 2 10w bulbs and you might find yourself wanting carbon supplementation. U-tube CFLs can give off a surprising amount of light.