Constipated, dropsy, or just fat?

[J.Mcpeak]

Male fish develop breeding tubercles (white nodules) on the operculum (gill flap)

This is for goldfish.

There may be other indicators such as fin shape etc.

Normally males do the chasing.

 

[shepz]

In all fairness I can't see any white along the gills, but this fish did do the chasing, I also heard that fish will chase others if the other fish is unhealthy, which I guess constipation could be the case.

The gold/yellow fish does have quite an open vent, does this mean anything? As far as I know it's not protruding.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Comets normally grow large and take a while getting to size. They don't reach sexual maturity until they are a decent size, around 6" or 15cms.

The gonads of fish are normally located upwards of the anal vent not forward to the pectoral region. For most fish, egg layers/live bearers the position is the same. Vertical to the anal vent.

What size are your fish?

 

[shepz]

Is this fish with the red dot definitely a comet then? I couldn't decide between comet or just common goldfish.

If I am measuring from head to tail, the goldfish is about 4-5inches and the red head is about 4 inches (maybe half an inch-a full inch smaller then the gold one) but the red head is much slimmer and looks more muscular

 

[J.Mcpeak]

I'd say it was comet, which is shorthand for comet goldfish. The other possibility is probably shubunkin. I'm not a goldfish expert though, I'm just a fish freak!
The colour variance on goldfish is massive, indoor, outdoor and all sorts have an effect on coloration of even the same fish.

Really large tail is the sign of a comet, it is possible that the fish is already mature, it is also possible she is egg bound. He won't be egg bound.

Try to observe fish waste. Monitor it for a few days.
Try no food for two days, if the bulge stays the same, constipation providing no faecal matter observed. If the bulge goes away and no faecal matter, worms. (Some types grow with feeding and shrink when starved, some types just grow when fed but don't decrease in size when starved)

From the picture (1) the bulge looks lopsided? Is this the picture? Is she? Evenly bulged.

What have you added to the tank in the last six months, name everything you can think of.

 

[shepz]

Right I'll try a few days without food, she does have more bulge on one side than the other, like on the picture.

As for the comet situation maybe it's like a crossbreed kind of thing, my old comet had like a 3 inch tail that was virtually the same size as itself! Whereas this ones tail is large but no way near the ratio of my old one.

Does an open vent mean anything? It just seems larger but I'm guessing that might be because the whole fish is bloated.

I sure hope she's okay

 

[shepz]

As for the last 6 months she was just on a flake food diet which isn't great I guess, there was real and fake plants in the tank.

I didn't keep the water perfectly clear but I've learned that it's not acceptable so I've been on top of it for the last 2 months like my life depends on it

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Mate it is not even my fish! I feel the same way! That's why I'm trying to help, as we all are!

Trust me, there is nothing worse than feeling powerless to aid. For the best part we (those that properly care(love)) all know the feeling. Like emptiness every time you look through the glass.

I hope it's egg bound because it's easier/safer, usually not fatal. I'm not sure what to advise as I don't wish to upset JLK or anyone for that matter. Sexing the fish is important, this will help with diagnosis.

I think most people make the error of water care lapses. It's hard to replicate a river or lake. I have made that error. I've made many errors, some fatal. I'm still gutted about those losses. Keep your chin up! Hopefully we can fix it.

 

[shepz]

It's good to know there's people out there like you haha.

I spent a good half hour a day just sat in my spare room with her just to watch her behaviour for abit, nothing would be worse than loosing my first ever fish, I'm surprised she's made it this long.

Would an uneven bulge mean anything different? Or could it still be anything

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Sorry to burden you!

Lop sided could mean something different. I have a female Cory, C.Paleatus, she is fourth generation from my first pair 8 years ago. She is old 4ish but not old enough to be near dead or suffering from age related diseases. Lopsided bulge, slight response to some parasitic meds, no response to bacterial meds.
This is something I've been working on for the last few weeks. I can't bear to kill her. I have more meds lined up for Tuesday and I will be consulting a vet for some "special kit" with a hope to curing her.

It may just be a tumour (no cure)
Tumours do not spread like diseases. Normally they are isolated to one fish, my glass cats K.minor, seem to succumb to tumours after 6-7 years. One at a time. It could be coincidence with the tetra and Cory.

I had two black neon tetra, H. Herbertaxelrodi, over four years old, no response to any meds, I thought perhaps egg bound. In the end they got so big, I did the right thing by them. I am now two fish less in the shoal. I put it down to NTD (no known cure) but that shouldn't affect my Cory? What now?

I let my water slide a bit while the fish house was being built, still under 14 days per change but less than normal. Ultimately I feel responsible. They are in my care. May not be my fault at all? I feel responsible for the recent loss of my puffer fish, I started a thread for him.

I think you should get 17 or so years from a goldfish. (From memory)

Sucks huh! But I'm living it right now!

 

[shepz]

Let us know how it goes with the Cory!
It's always sad when a fish dies, I would hate too loose a puffer - there magnificent!

Is there any other ways to diagnose if it is a tumor? And is it best to humanely euthanise her if it is? (Not saying I could bare to do it)

Also her anus is seeming more pink and inverted, is this the normal colour it should be and/or should it be inverted a little or not?

Not the best photo but a little indication

 

[J.Mcpeak]

The fact it seems to affect more than one fish, fish which seem not to be defecating would suggest a form of worms.

One egg laden female OK. Could be this.

Two fish with similar symptoms, one of which would appear to be male?
Can't be egg bound.

Not so sure myself. It doesn't add up to that, egg bind.

The worst case, you have an egg bound female and something else wrong with the male.

What is the faeces report? Should be noticeable. If you don't remove it from the tank the filter will remove some but not all on a day to day basis.


SERIOUSLY, thank you for your concerns regarding my little lady.


There are about 1900 various forms of worms, I do not know the first 100. All are internal parasites. Some only respond to a certain medication.

I can diagnose tumours in my catfish because I can see right through them. Normally a smaller lump, eventually white overall. Any area of body.

Search Kryptopterus Minor. Or Kryptopterus Bicirrhis (old name) you will see why! These fish I think are beyond cool! X rays alive!

 

[shepz]

Glass catfish? That has got to be the best thing I have seen in my life!

I'm concerned with all fish, especially with yours as you've shown interest in helping me I'm hoping your Cory does get well soon, they're another fish I want but cannot have just yet.

As for my fish, I think I've either typed something wrong or maybe you have misread something. I posted about my red head comet in hoping that someone could find its sex, but as for its health it's a very active happy fish, that eats well and lays it's fair share of waste!

Currently it's just my Goldie that's the worry, I hope it's not a tumor, it's not white on the outside near the lump but it is unusual for the fish to bloat more on one side than the other :s

Another night for me too worry and hope for a better morning I think!

 

[shepz]

And as always the faeces in the Goldie's tank is nowhere to be seen, just a few chewed peas

 

[J.Mcpeak]

I'd say forget the tumour!

It looks too broad, it's more like a wart sized lump on a human, or maybe one of them spots that seem to grow like, whoa man that's a big spot! Why me! The ones that make you plod about like this. . . that type of spot.

I assumed the chaser to be male, normal activity for most if not all fish. Male chases female. Plus the more slender body shape, muscular you said, good visual indicator. Lack of tubercles? 50:50. Tubercles guarantees its a male. (Goldfish)

Lack of faeces, see my previous post. Possibly my first or second post. Key indicator, red swelling ties in with a post I was concerned with earlier, symptoms now similar to camallanus, killed my fist botia almorhae, B. lohachata (old name) maybe 7 years ago.



I can't believe you've never seen a glass catfish! I love these fish just for the fact they are see through, when they eat is why I can't get rid of them. When they die they turn cloudy like milky, some people suggest something in the blood makes them see through. Just magic with fins on.


Research, Cestoda 1500+ nematodes 10,000+ acanthocephala 400+
These are all considered worms.

Figures above are accurate, I made doubly sure and checked my references. It is impossible to know them all. Some are able to locate within the body cavity (lop sided) see, schistocephalus and ligula

 

[shepz]

Spots are never good news, that's for sure.

Yeah the lack of tubercles is what I can't understand:/, do tubercles only show up during breeding season or are they a constant thing on males?

Glass catfish sounds like a very impressive fish though, going to do some research on them tomorrow.

As with the worms I will look at them tomorrow, I have to be up in 5 hours for college, thanks for the help and I'll get back to you tomorrow, goodnight!

 

[jlk]

Ok, I am afraid I am a bit lost now in this thread!

Thank you for pics of your other fish! On a white fish it is difficult to see white spots. The graininess of the pics makes it a bit difficult to decipher if there is a spot or two or none. In pic 1, there may be a tubercle or two on the operculum but it just may be the pic. In the 3 (I believe...) pic, there is closer view of the pectoral fin and there appears to be characteristic 'bubbles' but then again, it just may be the pic. Can you look closely at the pectoral fins (bottom chest fins) and see if there any bumps or bubbles? By your description (slim, muscular build), the fish sounds more male than female when the chasing behavior is considered.

Tubercles can be present whether there are any other fish present or not but a female can help to incite their appearance (hormones) in a male. They can come and go or be present year round if the fish is kept in top condition. Keep in mind breeding is a major energy expense for fish so unless they are in condition to expend it, they generally will not bother. Tubercles do not guarantee a male fish though- there are quite a few androgynous goldfish out there that display characteristics of either both sexes or neither.

However, chasing can be indicative of numerous things in goldfish. Breeding behavior is an obvious one but more often than not, its usually not the case. Lack of sufficient space to move is a big reason. Overcrowding is another. Unhealthy water and unsuitable conditions can make any fish miserable and unfriendly towards his tankmates. As you already mentioned, a healthy fish will bully a sick and/or weak fish. Then theres simply personality. While males generally are the more aggressive of the species and the dominant male will bully anybody and everybody, goldfish personalities run the spectrum just like people. Some are jovial, social creatures while others dislike everyone and everything.

Please pick up some Epsom salt so we can see if this helps her at all! Oh, and it is normal for a female fish to appear lopsided (especially when she has eggs). You may want to consider antibiotic medicated foods in addition to the Epsom.

 

[shepz]

Ahh it really is difficult to tell, there could possibly be some but I cannot quite make my mind up when I look.

I'm going to see if I can get some Epsom salt after college today and if not, tomorrow.

For the time being should I keep with the veggie diet or give her a day or two off food because she's been on it for over a week.

Would you say there is an overcrowded problem in my tank? (40gal, 3 small weatherloach, 2 baby black moores and currently this red head)

Normally the Goldie would be in there too.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

When were the various fish added?

How long have you kept each?

 

[shepz]

I had one weatherloach that red head and the Goldie in it all together for about two years together, before that the Goldie used to be with my other fish which died or were given away.

The two weather loach and black Moore were taken off my brothers hands 2 odd months ago, after he wasn't managing to look after his tank and stuff along with his 12 hour shifts. They've all settled in nicely though all very active and eat and poop alot