Constipated, dropsy, or just fat?

[shepz]

Hey everyone!

My fish about 5-6 weeks ago started looking fat (I posted on here earlier about maybe her being preganant, don't think she is)

So I immediately moved her to another tank (quite small for her I do admit) But since then she hasn't lost any size or anything, she was a tiny bit on a slant at first but after some peas she was fine. But still she is fat as hell but I can't tell why/is it's a disease or maybe just a larger fish.

So I wonder if any of you can tell me if she's okay or if she has any problems. I stopped feeding her for a few days and for the past 3 days I've gave her some peas as a laxative. I haven't really seen any waste from her and I do check her tank at least once a day, but I don't know if this is because the filter is cleaning it away before I get a chance too see it. Tank is rather small though, about 40cm high and 55cm long with about 30cm width.

I was reading up and some people think most bloated fish have dropsy but I was looking for a pinecone shape and she doesn't have it, her scales near her belly look more defined now which can sometimes give a tiny effect of outwardness but when you look again she's as smooth as a whistle!

She is a really lively fish despite the small tank and I have had her for like 6 years and don't want her to die.

The ultimate question is, what's wrong. I have a feeling that it's constipation but I don't know. I have pictures of pretty much every aspect of the fish for you peeps too look at. Unfortunately I don't have any testing kits so I can't tell you the parameters, but I have just done a 50% water change. I do have another tank that's around 200 litres big with 3 weather loaches and 1 goldfish in, should I just put her in there and continue to see how she behaves?

Thanks

 

[jlk]

Is she eating the peas you are feeding her? Add some cooked spinach to her veggies, too. Then observe closely if she is going to the bathroom at all. If she's eating the veggies, she should have green waste. If she is not going to the bathroom, then she is likely constipated. Epsom salt baths (1tsp/g for 15-20mins) act as a laxative and can help with this.

It is also possible she may be gravid (full of eggs) as she does not appear dropsied. Her scales are perfectly flat and you mention her being active. Typically, a female that does not release eggs will reabsorb them, however, do not expect her to be quite as small as she was previously.

Will she allow you to pick her up? If so, feel her belly- does it feel firm or soft and squishy? Firmness indicates constipation while a soft, squishy belly may indicate eggs in this case.

 

[shepz]

Thanks for your reply,

At first she was Definately eating peas whole, now she's breaking them up but I think for the most part she is eating them.

She allowed me to hold her and her belly felt quite bumpy and soft in some places but abit firmer in other. It felt like there was a few bumpy bits I don't know if this is eggs or not.

So far I still haven't seen her go to the toilet, these salt baths, do you need a special kind of salt? And can I do it in a container if she's only in there for 10-20mins?

 

[jlk]

If you feel the roundest part of the belly on the sides/bottom towards her vent (very gently), you actually won't feel eggs (they are tiny) but her belly will feel soft and squishy and 'give' with a bit of pressure. Constipation feels like your pressing against a relaxed muscle in your leg or arm (firm but gives a bit).

Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) can be found inexpensively ($1-2 a box) in any drug, grocery or chain store in the first aid section. Make sure the salt is fully dissolved before adding her. Yes, a separate bucket for the bath for about 15-20mins and make sure you are watching her during the bath in case she tries to jump or has a negative reaction.

 

[shepz]

Right I'll try again later, what's the best way to hold her though cause I don't want to hurt her even though she is quite a hardy fish.
Also I'll buy some magnesium sulphate as soon as I can.

How long do fish stay gravid for? Or what's the average amount of time that a fish would carry its eggs?

 

[shepz]

I've tried feeling again and I can't seems to feel whether it's hard enough for constipation or not, she is very very soft around her vent though.

Should I keep her in this smallish tank still or should I move her with the other fish?

 

[jlk]

How long a fish can stay gravid is not a set thing. My one fertile momma is an egg machine and appears as if she is going to pop every few weeks on average. My adult female comets look like your fish from late spring until late fall.

If she seems active and healthy, you can try moving her back with the others. Then watch for breeding behavior (chasing, bumping, males having their noses in her tail constantly). If the males are displaying breeding behaviors, then she is likely gravid. If they stress her excessively, you can move her back to the small tank for a rest as needed. If she does lay eggs, you can remove whatever is not eaten by the adults.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Keep isolated.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f17/gold-saum-protruding-anus-285953.html

In 6 years have you ever witnessed this "look" if not see link above.

Dropsy lifts scales outward, it isn't dropsy. The look is similar to an open pinecone.

"I haven't really seen any waste from her and I do check her tank at least once a day, but I don't know if this is because the filter is cleaning it away before I get a chance too see it."

I guess worms.

 

[jlk]

Keep isolated.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f17/gold-saum-protruding-anus-285953.html

In 6 years have you ever witnessed this "look" if not see link above.

Dropsy lifts scales outward, it isn't dropsy. The look is similar to an open pinecone.

"I haven't really seen any waste from her and I do check her tank at least once a day, but I don't know if this is because the filter is cleaning it away before I get a chance too see it."

I guess worms.

I have to disagree. He has had her for 6 years. I honestly suspect its possible she is egg bound. Putting her back in with males will tell us if she is gravid as the hormones she releases will incite breeding behaviors in the males. Unfortunately, there is no magic cure for an egg bound fish. Epsom salt baths, lots of veggies and considering an antibiotic medicated food are the only measures that can be taken if its the case.

 

[shepz]

What do you mean by 'you guess worms'? do you mean like parasitic worms?

And I did notice before I isolated her my other fish was chasing and rubbing against her a hell of a lot, and I thought she was tired which was another reason why I isolated her.

But I did put them both in this little tank and I didn't see much of that behaviour, but it might be that the other fish was getting used to new habitat? I don't really know

I'm really unsure though because normally I always see waste in my big tank so if this little one doesn't have any in, that I can see, then I think she might be constipated.

Either way I can move her to the big tank for a few days/a week and see what happens.

I'll go by what you guys say because as much as I love fish, I'm still a beginner when it comes to knowledge.

 

[shepz]

Oh and also when I look at her from the side there isn't any protruding vent or anything, all I see is what's on the pictures

 

[jlk]

I honestly would keep feeding her veggies and try the Epsom baths. Epsom salt is a natural laxative if she is constipated. An egg bound fish though will exhibit signs of constipation and/or may have odd waste. You can also try putting a tiny crystal of Epsom salt into a deshelled pea and see if she will eat this.

If you saw breeding behavior before you moved her, its likely eggs are behind her appearance over anything else. Males can be brutal and will chase and harass a female to exhaustion or injury so this is something that needs to be monitored closely.

 

[shepz]

Yeah I think I'm going to carry on with the veggies, I won't be able to get some salt till the weekend though

Another problem is I don't know if this other fish is a female or a male, recon you could help me out if I get some clear pics?

Is there any other laxatives or are peas, broccoli and Epsom salts the best things I can do?

Will constipation lead to fatality anytime soon? Seen as though she has been like this for weeks (if she actually is constipated)

Also do gravid goldfish have a lot less waste then normal?

Thanks

 

[jlk]

If you post pics, I can try to make a gender ID (need gill plates/pectoral fins, side view of whole fish, top view of the whole fish) but I can not make any guarantees as sexing goldfish is pretty challenging. Seeing a fish in person and being able to pick it up to try and vent it helps but I will try my best with pics.

Any kind of veggie (spinach, deshelled peas, broccoli, zucchini, etc) can help some as long she eats it. And, yes, a gravid fish can have constipation issues too. Epsom salt is really easy to find if you have a grocery store/pharmacy/chain store near you. Its not something available at lfs as its intended for human use.

 

[shepz]

Ahh okay thanks for that I'll try get some he shots of the fish later, would be great to know the sex.

I'll get some Epsom salt asap unless I already have some in the cupboard. I will keep with this diet and if I don't see a change I might move her back to the larger tank with the other fish and see how she gets on.

Should I also be doing very frequent water changes due to leftover peas changing the waters acidic levels? And if so what % and how often?

 

[shepz]

Oh and also, you can see the pictures I posted when I started this thread right? (Just checking, if not I will post links)

 

[jlk]

Yes, your first pictures are visible! I don't know what size tank she is in right now but if there are toxin issues, you definitely should be doing water changes daily. 50% anytime your ammonia and/or nitrite hit.25ppm or higher. Nitrate should be below 20.

Is the acidity an issue in your other tank or just this one? How low is the ph? What is your tap ph? If your having issues keeping this tank stable, I would consider moving her back sooner rather than later.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

I'm not a vet but the lack of faecal matter is the alarm bell.
If nobody is entirely sure, that above is my opinion, that is all.

Can be brought in on new plants or fish or live food? I don't know exactly your circumstance. With stock in you tank. It can go unnoticed for some time, months.

As I understand it, egg bound fish will just re absorb the eggs after a certain time period. May be different for different fish.

The set of parasites (worms) is responsible for killing most of my fish before the quoted life expectancy. Second biggest killer for me was ich.

I can't explain why.

 

[shepz]

Right well I've started doing water changes everyday as she's in an 18gal.

My only worry with her going back in the other tank is that she'll end up eating what I feed the other fish and not her veggies

 

[shepz]

This is my other fish that is like to know what sex it is, I've tried hard getting pics but it's a tough job, if you need any different angles or clearer ones on such part of the fish let me know!

He/she is about 2-3 years old now which I heard is a good mating ages, and this fish was the one chasing my other one around when it began to blow up in size