Cycling help!

[Dirtyd301]

Hi everyone!
I had a five gallon tank with 3 Halequins in it. The tank broke so when I got a new one I upgraded to a 20 gallon. This was four weeks ago. I brought the gravel, plants, and decorations over. I also kept the filter media in with the new one for 4 weeks. We recently added 3 mollies with them as well. My question is I am constantly stuck at .25 reading for ammonia but there have been no nitrite or nitrate spikes that I have seen and I check every couple you days. I am doing tons of water changes to try and keep it down. All the fish are doing well except for the Mickey Mouse Molly. Today he is very lethargic and hanging at the bottom of the tank. What can I do to get it to cycle and keep down the ammonia? I am afraid he is getting sick from the ammonia

 

[Aiken Drum]

Your target should be to keep ammonia + nitrite combined at no higher than 0.5ppm combined. You need some ammonia to fuel the cycle process. Perhaps you are overdoing the water changes if you are never getting above trace levels of ammonia.

0.25ppm ammonia is basically zero and wont be causing any harm to your fish. You might even have zero ammonia. Have you tried testing some bottled water that you know is zero and comparing it to your tank water test? 0ppm can sometimes look a little like a 0.25ppm result.

Ammonia gets more toxic at higher pH and temperatures. 0.25ppm ammonia is well into the safe zone at typical aquarium pH and temperatures.

 

[Dirtyd301]

Thank you! I did test it and it looks yellow with tap water and slight green with the aquarium water. I guess that is my question…. Will the fish be ok with 0.25 ammonia? My PH is around 7.2. I didn’t get concerned until I noticed the one fish not doing well today. I assumed it was from the ammonia but maybe it’s something else?? The others are very lively and healthy. I am also using Prime every time I change the water which has been every 2-3 days.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Ammonia toxicity.

It isnt the issue it was once thought and you might have been led to believe.

Free ammonia is extremely toxic to fish in even small quantities, but your test kit doesnt test for free ammonia, it tests for total ammonia nitrogen (TAN). TAN is free ammonia + ammonium. Ammonium is nowhere near as toxic as free ammonia. The amount of free ammonia and ammonium is determined by pH and temperature. The higher these are the more of your TAN is free ammonia. Attached is toxicity chart for the level of TAN you are seeing. Green is good, yellow take measures, red is danger. At 7.2pH and typical water temperature you needca really high level of TAN to be toxic.

While seeing ammonia is a sign you arent cycled, it isnt necessarily dangerous, and if you are trying to cycle essential. The trick is to have enough, while not being a health concern. 0.5ppm combined ammonia + nitrite are safe levels and you will have enough waste to get your cycle going.

Link to thread on ammonia toxicity if you are interested and want more detail.

https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/your-guide-to-ammonia-toxicity-159994.html

 

[ColdKoi]

I’d also have to say that maybe the fish is suffering from something else

If you’re getting marginally detectable ammonia levels, it ‘shouldn’t’ be anything near enough to cause harm to the fish. But you also have to take into consideration ph and water temperature. Even then, if you go by the charts, with a 7.2ph you’re still safe

Refer to this thread: https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/your-guide-to-ammonia-toxicity-159994.html

Edit: I guess were both posting at the same time lol

When I was doing my fish-in cycle I tried to keep nh3/4 below 1ppm, as like mentioned above it’s a necessary evil for starting the cycle, you want to keep some amount in the tank!

 

[Aiken Drum]

When I was doing my fish-in cycle I tried to keep nh3/4 below 1ppm, as like mentioned above it’s a necessary evil for starting the cycle, you want to keep some amount in the tank!

Depending on your approach to risk and your other parameters thats a reasonably safe approach.

To add though.
- For novices, always best to err on the side of safety.
- Your pH and temperature might fluctuate. Maintaining lower ammonia takes away the risk of what you think is a safe level suddenly not being.
- Your test kit isnt that accurate. You might have more ammonia than your test is showing. Again maintaining a lower reading takes away the risk of an innacurate reading.

The seachem ammonia alert patch actually does measure free ammonia. If you are planning on really pushing the boundaries of whats safe you might want to use something that actually measures free ammonia. I think seachem also does a liquid test for free ammonia.

 

[Dirtyd301]

Thank you both! So how often should I change my water? As long as it stays no higher than 0.25 can I do once or twice a week?

 

[ColdKoi]

Yes, it’s all dependant on your water test results. And how much work you want to put into it.

Some people here say .5-1ppm between ammonia and nitrite combined is the safe limit. But that can also be skewed if you’re using something like prime or ammo lock that detoxifies these as well as the water ph and temperature

To cycle the tank, you NEED to have some amount of measurable ammonia, then nitrites for the bacteria to feed on. You don’t want to keep changing massive amounts of water looking for a 0 reading because that will never happen.

If your ammonia (nh3/4) readings plateau at that .25-.5 mark I wouldn’t personally change water until you start seeing in excess of .5 nitrites. IMO the least amount of water changes is going to result in the fastest cycle, the only reason to change water is to keep the parameters within a safe limit for the critters in the tank

I would do a daily test, in the morning before feeding so the tank has had some time to stabilize. Until you start seeing excessive ammonia or nitrite readings, I would leave the water alone and let it do it’s thing

 

[Dirtyd301]

Great thanks. It’s probably why it’s taking so long. It has been four weeks and my kids want to add more fish but I don’t think that’s a good idea until I am done cycling

 

[ColdKoi]

Definitely not the best idea to add more yet, unless you like work!

Also, once it’s cycled you can’t just dump a bunch of fish in and everything is going to be good. Once it’s cycled it is only cycled for the amount of inputs that are currently in the tank, if you throw another 50% more ammonia at it, there will not be sufficient bacteria to metabolize it and you will see a spike.

Always best to introduce a couple at a time to let the bacteria and the tank levels stabilize

 

[Dirtyd301]

Yeah I would only add a couple at a time. My Mickey Molly didn’t make it so now I am down to 5. I’ll wait until things are stable. I am going to be out of town this upcoming weekend so hopefully I won’t get any spikes until I come back

 

[ColdKoi]

Oh boy. Sorry to hear that...

But, it’s not always your or the tanks fault. I’ve had fish die on me before they even get home, and a pleco that suddenly died after 3 weeks in a tank that everyone else has and still is happy in. Sometimes those things just happen!

 

[Dirtyd301]

Thank you… it always sucks when it happens but nothing you can do. Thank you again for all your advice