Cycling Question

[MABJ]

Thanks for the reply. I'm doing a fishless cycle so I'm not worried about that, but my pH has dropped from 8 to 6.6 in 5 days so I'm a bit concerned & wonder if I should do a water change so it doesn't stall my cycle.

Well 8 is pretty high. 6.5 is right where you should be IMO. Do you know the PH right out of your tap?

 

[geff.gardner]

It's 8.

 

[jlbfish]

From what I know when you see a ph drop like that you want to do a PWC to replace nutrients and to get your pH back to its 'normal' levels.

 

[geff.gardner]

From what I know when you see a ph drop like that you want to do a PWC to replace nutrients and to get your pH back to its 'normal' levels.

Okay, thanks. Any idea on what %?

 

[jlbfish]

Not positive but I would do 80-100%

 

[MABJ]

If it's dropping that much, definitely do a water change. A few large ones day after day. I wouldn't do an 80 percent in one day.

 

[Batt4Christ]

Just saying, if the goal of the bottle is to aid in the cycle, to help spur it along, wouldn't dosing a reasonable amount of ammonia theoretically be the same as having fish?

We need someone who either has access to a school bio lab, or better - someone who is a biologist, to actually take a look at this stuff. From everything I have been able to track down and read - the stuff is a gimmick. It may have ingredients to help fish stress levels... but bacteria are living organisms that need not only moisture, but certain conditions which are not met in the bottle. Yes, some bacteria can live in a sealed container (just ask those folks who have been poisoned by botulism). But that being said - we are dealing with completely different bacteria.

I have had a successful cycle in 2 weeks - came about by adding some substrate, plants, filter media from another long-established tank, and even ran an extra filter from that tank on the new tank. Ammonia was completely gone in less than 24 hours after 10 days, and would again drop to 0 after being raised to 4ppm in the morning. Still added fish slowly.

 

[geff.gardner]

Here were my results from last night's test, PH dropped a bit more. Ammonia wasn't at 0 most likely because it was 20 hours since I last added (I've been testing every 24 hours but had to test earlier last night)

PH - 6.0
Ammonia - .5 ppm
Nitrites - 5 ppm +
Nitrates - 5 - 10 ppm (in the middle)
Temperature - 86


I did about a 33% water change last night and added 42 drops of ammonia (that gets my ammonia from 0 to 4 ppm) & also removed the 1 live plant I had as it was turning my water a bit green, not sure why but it appears the plant I had wasn't necessarily an aquatic plant. I'll test parameters tonight and do another pwc if necessary.

I'm leaving for vacation tomorrow morning, so I will add a shrimp in pantyhose. Upon my return, depending on how things look, I may go w/ Tetra SafeStart to speed it up while still adding ammonia for a few days before actually adding fish.

 

[librarygirl]

Here were my results from last night's test, PH dropped a bit more. Ammonia wasn't at 0 most likely because it was 20 hours since I last added (I've been testing every 24 hours but had to test earlier last night)

PH - 6.0
Ammonia - .5 ppm
Nitrites - 5 ppm +
Nitrates - 5 - 10 ppm (in the middle)
Temperature - 86


I did about a 33% water change last night and added 42 drops of ammonia (that gets my ammonia from 0 to 4 ppm) & also removed the 1 live plant I had as it was turning my water a bit green, not sure why but it appears the plant I had wasn't necessarily an aquatic plant. I'll test parameters tonight and do another pwc if necessary.

I'm leaving for vacation tomorrow morning, so I will add a shrimp in pantyhose. Upon my return, depending on how things look, I may go w/ Tetra SafeStart to speed it up while still adding ammonia for a few days before actually adding fish.

I'd test your PH again and do a lot bigger water change, 100% if you can do it. A PH of 6 will most likely stall your cycle and the PH fluctuations may be why your ammonia isn't at 0. If you go away for a few days be prepared that the PH may drop again and stall things until you can come back and do some water changes. You could also try adding some crushed coral or crushed argonite to your filter (sold in most fish/pet stores in the saltwater section; unfortunately it's mostly only sold in large bags and you'll only need a small amount), which can help buffer and stabilize the PH during cycling.

 

[MABJ]

We need someone who either has access to a school bio lab, or better - someone who is a biologist, to actually take a look at this stuff. From everything I have been able to track down and read - the stuff is a gimmick. It may have ingredients to help fish stress levels... but bacteria are living organisms that need not only moisture, but certain conditions which are not met in the bottle. Yes, some bacteria can live in a sealed container (just ask those folks who have been poisoned by botulism). But that being said - we are dealing with completely different bacteria.

I have had a successful cycle in 2 weeks - came about by adding some substrate, plants, filter media from another long-established tank, and even ran an extra filter from that tank on the new tank. Ammonia was completely gone in less than 24 hours after 10 days, and would again drop to 0 after being raised to 4ppm in the morning. Still added fish slowly.

I was only making a point theoretically about ammonia, not commenting on the success or failure of instacycle bottles.

 

[geff.gardner]

I'd test your PH again and do a lot bigger water change, 100% if you can do it. A PH of 6 will most likely stall your cycle and the PH fluctuations may be why your ammonia isn't at 0. If you go away for a few days be prepared that the PH may drop again and stall things until you can come back and do some water changes. You could also try adding some crushed coral or crushed argonite to your filter (sold in most fish/pet stores in the saltwater section; unfortunately it's mostly only sold in large bags and you'll only need a small amount), which can help buffer and stabilize the PH during cycling.

Thanks for the advice. I'll do another big water change tonight.

 

[geff.gardner]

I'm at a complete loss w/ what's going on with my cycle. I went on vacation from 4/21 - 4/25 and did a shrimp in pantyhose to keep a constant ammonia source, however I came back to see that my heater was broken & the temperature was down into the 60s, stalling my cycle. I exchanged the heater, got it back up into the mid 80s & started adding ammonia daily to get it back to 4ppm. My nitrites & nitrates were still both at 5 ppm.

Then on 5/2 I added Tetra SafeStart, and added ammonia shortly afterwords. The next day I discovered my ammonia was between 2 - 4ppm (odd because it had been going down to 0 after 24 hours) so I waited another day & discovered it was still at 2 ppm. I then tested my PH & realized it was below 6. My normal PH is around 7.6.

I did a 90% water change & got my ammonia back to 4 ppm, then 24 hours later it was back to 0, and my nitrites were at 5, but now my nitrates are up to 20ppm. How could that have happened? They were only at 5 ppm and I did a 90% water change, so how would it jump to 20 ppm in 24 hours?

 

[jlk]

I'm at a complete loss w/ what's going on with my cycle. I went on vacation from 4/21 - 4/25 and did a shrimp in pantyhose to keep a constant ammonia source, however I came back to see that my heater was broken & the temperature was down into the 60s, stalling my cycle. I exchanged the heater, got it back up into the mid 80s & started adding ammonia daily to get it back to 4ppm. My nitrites & nitrates were still both at 5 ppm.

Then on 5/2 I added Tetra SafeStart, and added ammonia shortly afterwords. The next day I discovered my ammonia was between 2 - 4ppm (odd because it had been going down to 0 after 24 hours) so I waited another day & discovered it was still at 2 ppm. I then tested my PH & realized it was below 6. My normal PH is around 7.6.

I did a 90% water change & got my ammonia back to 4 ppm, then 24 hours later it was back to 0, and my nitrites were at 5, but now my nitrates are up to 20ppm. How could that have happened? They were only at 5 ppm and I did a 90% water change, so how would it jump to 20 ppm in 24 hours?

Thats perfectly normal for your nitrates to jump from 5 to 20 in a 24hr period of time! That means your second set of bacteria are starting to process nitrite. Expect your nitrates to start jumping much higher as more of the nitrite is being processed. I would really keep a close eye on your ph though as more amm/nitrite is being processed- more of the buffers are being utilized for the conversion process and you are likely to see more ph crashes in the future as the buffer levels decline. Did you add any cr coral or argonite yet?

 

[geff.gardner]

Oh really? Okay thanks. I've had nitrates visible since day 8 of my cycle but it's been constantly between 5 - 10 ppm, so I was shocked at this big jump. Does that mean that I'm nearing the end of my cycle? I'm on 30 days now (had a few stalls)

I'll keep an eye on my PH & do PWCs as needed.

I haven't added any coral or argonite.

 

[jlk]

Not quite there yet but your starting phase 2! The nitrite>nitrate phase is pretty trying on one's patience though so hang in there!

 

[geff.gardner]

Not quite there yet but your starting phase 2! The nitrite>nitrate phase is pretty trying on one's patience though so hang in there!

I've been on phase 2 for 21 days now so I'm getting a bit impatient but hopefully it's not TOO much longer.

 

[jlk]

Ok, your nitrites are still in the 5+ range, correct? And your ph is stable today? Skip the ammonia today. If you have already dosed, no big deal- just skip it tomorrow. If your nitrites dont come down to a readable number on their own in the next 2-3 days, then its time for another big water change to bring them down & under control. We can then scale back on the ammonia until your nitrite>nitrate catch up. Keep us posted!

 

[geff.gardner]

Yup, they have been at 5 or more since I started checking for them on day 6 (now on day 30) My PH was stable at 7.6 as of last night. I haven't dosed yet today, I usually do at about 6 pm. So should I skip adding ammonia until my nitrites are readable, or just for today?

Thanks for your help!

 

[jlk]

Lets see how things look 24hrs from you when would normally dose & we can go from there. If they dont drop, you can skip the amm for 2-3 days & see if they do on their own. You dont need to test amm for the next few days but lets keep a close eye on your nitrites, nitrates & ph. Hopefully, we will see your nitrates continue to steadily rise as long as your ph stays stable.

 

[geff.gardner]

Sounds good, thanks