Discus aggression need tips!

[TomCarter13]

So i'm new into the discus world and i finally have got my setup almost complete the only problem is my discus are very aggressive!
I have

Two 3" blue diamonds
One 3" marlboro red
One 3.5" pigeon blood
One 3.5 blue leopard
One 4-4.5" red melon (i know its quite large but it does not bother the other fish at all)

So apart from one fish all my other 5 are aggressive to each other and ever since
I put my blue diamonds in it has been chaotic! The 2 blue diamonds have slightly darkened up on the body but there are no signs of other sicknesses apart from small nips on fins and on the body.

Someone has already told me that establishing the pecking order can take about 6-10 weeks before they start to settle down but i would really like some other tips on possible ways to settle them down and/ or how to prevent it?

Also my blue leopard is pretty much the alpha as far as i'm aware and has his territory by a piece of drift wood and chases any fish that come near it except for the red melon? Plus he really colours up when he is around the red melon and the blue leopard always pecks up and down one part of the drift wood?? I know this sounds stupid but are these signs of possible pairing off?

Thanks

 

[TomCarter13]

Also the blue leopard discus is actually just about 4"

 

[Fishy Smell]

Are they in your 60 gallon, as that would not be big enough for 6 discus?

 

[TomCarter13]

Yes it is my 60 gallon and unfortunately it is a tall tank but i like it the reason i got this type of tank was because i was originally going to keep other types of fish but then i had the chance to purchase some discus so i did. I think what i have been told by professionals who i trust that the tank they sold me is great for a large community tank, some cichlids (including a small group of discus), and some types of marine fish. He did tell me however if i was to keep larger fish i would have to create more free swimming space. This is a picture of my tank.




Sorry, the fish aren't out because its night and i just turned the lights on again.

 

[TomCarter13]

Got some pics they're actually being quite peaceful and beautiful right now

 

[Fishy Smell]

I think they'll be a bit squashed once they near full size, but they'll be ok for now definately. They are cichlids remember, and need their space as a group. I think you'd get away with 4 at a push, longer term. Just my opinion, one of my tanks is a 55 and i wouldn't put 6 in that. I have 1 discus with and Angel and a few smaller cichlids in a 46 G.

 

[treemanone2003]

Are they in your 60 gallon, as that would not be big enough for 6 discus?

6 Discus are perfectly fine in a 60 gallon tank. It's recommended one adult Discus per ten gallons of water.

 

[treemanone2003]

I think they'll be a bit squashed once they near full size, but they'll be ok for now definately. They are cichlids remember, and need their space as a group. I think you'd get away with 4 at a push, longer term. Just my opinion, one of my tanks is a 55 and i wouldn't put 6 in that. I have 1 discus with and Angel and a few smaller cichlids in a 46 G.

They won't be squashed at all. It's been proven many times over that 5-6 adult Discus in a 55-60g tank is the best thing for them. Your opinion is valued but it's seriously wrong.

For you to have 1 in a 46 is really hurting the Discus, as they should be kept in groups of 5 or more. And there's quite a few reasons for that. They are best as a schooling group, need the companionship of others to prolong their lifespan, and require it for a hierarchy to be established.

You should do some more research in regards to proper husbandry of Discus before passing along poor information. Here's a good place to get you up to pace on proper ethics and protocols for them as a hobby.


http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?86009-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Getting-Started-with-Discus

 

[Angelmom2]

As Discus grow, they will need more space. I agree with the 10 gallons per adult discus.The more space they have the better. Frequent WC's are also a must, as Discus arê really picky about their water conditions. They do better in groups, and your always going to have a bully that will annoy the others.

 

[Mebbid]

6 Discus are perfectly fine in a 60 gallon tank. It's recommended one adult Discus per ten gallons of water.

Sure, 10 gallons per discus is a fine but you have to look at the lateral swimming room. Putting 5 discus in a 56g column tank is the exact same as cramming them into a 20g long tank. That's exactly whats happening here. There's 6 discus crammed into a tank with the same dimensions of a 40b at best. Gallonage doesn't mean squat when the tank dimensions are jacked up.

Your tank isn't a good size for discus.

If you would have taken a second to read a little into the problem you would have recognized the problem rather than insulting a person for absolutely no reason. Think before you berate.

 

[Angelmom2]

Wow, this is a forum for asking questions, getting ideas , & helping each other out. Why is there snottiness & attitude? Before complaining about someone's else's comment, try rating your own for it's content and the way it may be perceived.
Always a good rule of thumb : what you intend to say and the meaning your trying to convey may not be perceived by the receiver in the way you intended. People tend to read and take things and apply them to the mood or frame of mind they are in.
Written words lose their context.

No need for the snappy answers that I have seen by several people on several threads.

 

[treemanone2003]

Sure, 10 gallons per discus is a fine but you have to look at the lateral swimming room. Putting 5 discus in a 56g column tank is the exact same as cramming them into a 20g long tank. That's exactly whats happening here. There's 6 discus crammed into a tank with the same dimensions of a 40b at best. Gallonage doesn't mean squat when the tank dimensions are jacked up.



Your tank isn't a good size for discus.



If you would have taken a second to read a little into the problem you would have recognized the problem rather than insulting a person for absolutely no reason. Think before you berate.

Perhaps you should read the link that was posted in another reply. Also, FYI and fwiw, I've been back and forth with Tom about these fish many times over in pm. While I agree the footprint isn't perfect, it is quite acceptable. More acceptable than another person posting on here about keeping 11-15, 2.5-3" juvies in a 150g and not wanting to do any WC's.

If you could point out exactly where I insulted him, I would really appreciate that info, as I only pointed out facts and did not disperse poor, uneducated information. Perhaps he can speak for himself and maybe he is not insulted. I don't berate people but I have no problem explaining when they're wrong and backing it up as I did.

As well, it's probably a good time to let you know that I've been keeping Discus successfully for the last 7-8 years. In that time, not only I have bought, sold, and traded quite a few, but have grown out a few 2.5" juvies to 5.5" adults. All in less than perfect conditions as times are constantly changing and I'm continuously learning new methods.

Now I don't consider myself an expert on Discus because there are many others that have not only been keeping, breeding, and raising them, but they've been doing it much longer than I have. However, I do consider myself far more educated about Discus than many others around here as most of the info I've seen passed around on other threads on Aquarium Advice regarding them is just hideous. Kind of makes my stomach curl.

And it really doesn't end just with Discus. It's quite often seen all across the board in tons of different threads.
A BGK in a 40g. 3 goldfish in 20g. Etc, etc, etc.

hth.

 

[TomCarter13]

Thank you for all your replies but no one was offending anyone at first? In fact, treemanone gave advise back!
I have a a fish based shop about a 45min drive from my home that has a guy there that breeds, and sells quality discus! He specialises in it and actually knows a fair bit about it as he has been doing it for just over 12 years! He helped me and motivated me to get started i have done the basic research but i never realised how aggressive they could potentially be which is stupid because they are a type of cichlid but now i know

Also just another question... If my fish were stressed because my tank was to small, wouldn't they hide and not eat? Because my fish (especially my adult fish) seem to be responding well, eating, and are showing signs of good health. It's just the aggression that can become annoying to see

Thank you though and i will keep these in mind for the future! More tips would be very appreciated too!!

 

[Fishy Smell]

Perhaps you should read the link that was posted in another reply. Also, FYI and fwiw, I've been back and forth with Tom about these fish many times over in pm. While I agree the footprint isn't perfect, it is quite acceptable. More acceptable than another person posting on here about keeping 11-15, 2.5-3" juvies in a 150g and not wanting to do any WC's.

If you could point out exactly where I insulted him, I would really appreciate that info, as I only pointed out facts and did not disperse poor, uneducated information. Perhaps he can speak for himself and maybe he is not insulted. I don't berate people but I have no problem explaining when they're wrong and backing it up as I did.

As well, it's probably a good time to let you know that I've been keeping Discus successfully for the last 7-8 years. In that time, not only I have bought, sold, and traded quite a few, but have grown out a few 2.5" juvies to 5.5" adults. All in less than perfect conditions as times are constantly changing and I'm continuously learning new methods.

Now I don't consider myself an expert on Discus because there are many others that have not only been keeping, breeding, and raising them, but they've been doing it much longer than I have. However, I do consider myself far more educated about Discus than many others around here as most of the info I've seen passed around on other threads on Aquarium Advice regarding them is just hideous. Kind of makes my stomach curl.

And it really doesn't end just with Discus. It's quite often seen all across the board in tons of different threads.
A BGK in a 40g. 3 goldfish in 20g. Etc, etc, etc.

hth.

Yeah, i can speak for myself but i don't get into discussions with internet trolls, so not much else to say really.

For the benefit of the genuine people on this site, i stick by my original comments.

 

[Fishy Smell]

Thank you for all your replies but no one was offending anyone at first? In fact, treemanone gave advise back!
I have a a fish based shop about a 45min drive from my home that has a guy there that breeds, and sells quality discus! He specialises in it and actually knows a fair bit about it as he has been doing it for just over 12 years! He helped me and motivated me to get started i have done the basic research but i never realised how aggressive they could potentially be which is stupid because they are a type of cichlid but now i know

Also just another question... If my fish were stressed because my tank was to small, wouldn't they hide and not eat? Because my fish (especially my adult fish) seem to be responding well, eating, and are showing signs of good health. It's just the aggression that can become annoying to see

Thank you though and i will keep these in mind for the future! More tips would be very appreciated too!!

Just to point out to you though, i'm not trying to say you are doing it all wrong, just that i personally would go for a bigger tank if i were housing 6 discus long term. They're in good health and doing well because they are relatively small at the moment. They may stay that way approaching full size too. I'll go back to the original question regarding the aggression. All cichlids IME are at their worst when they have conspecifics around (members of the same species). They need more space around them than they usually would. The way to cut back agression between a group of 6 Discus is to get the largest tank possible. I think in terms of physical size (tank vs fish) you might just be ok, but it depends how big they get. I also agree that Discus are better in groups than singles but as i say, in my opinion you need to dedicate a big tank to do it. 10G per Discus is too vague to take seriously.

You can keep a single with no issues as i do, as long as the water is clean (overfilter and weekly 15% change), quite warm (mine is 28deg) and with nothing that will pester or outcompete for food (i have other peaceful cichlids and a few hatchets / bentosi tetras etc). Always buy Discus from your best and most trusted LFS. I'll post a pic of mine when i get round to it.

Edit: i'm sure your dealer knows what he's doing but he does have a business to run if you catch my drift!

 

[TomCarter13]

Yeah on some notes i do agree with you. I have heard many stories of people who have successfully kept 1 discus on its own! But i've heard much more positive outcomes with keeping larger groups too and being a beginner i want to do what the best option possible is for my fish i do have the adult red melon who i said was about 4-4.5" (although i am from a country that uses the metric system so in my case he is 12 centimetres) and honestly from what i can see if there were six 4.5" discus in that tank that would fit in just about perfectly as there is alot of swim room.

I know discus can get up to 6-7" but i am not planning on keeping these for a long time, maybe 4 years at absolute maximum most! I want to get back into fancy goldfish i know that they're no discus but they are really adorable fun things also they are slightly less harder to care for but in the time being i am trying a planted discus tank for a project and i just wanted sone tips for them

Thank you

 

[TomCarter13]

Plus another thing i would recommend are large frequent water changes! I did a 55% wc in my discus tank to day and last friday! It makes them more coloured and alot more happy! I'm starting to do 110% a week and so far so great!

Tom

 

[Fishy Smell]

You'll definately be ok if they stay 5" or less before you trade them in. In terms of reducing aggression for now though, if it were me, i would put a large qty of plants in there. It will provide visual barriers and generally make the fish more comfortable, improving colour as well.

 

[TomCarter13]

Yes i am definately with you there haha but unfortunately i have not got enough money to spend on some more plants at the moment. I have got wc and things underway on the big tank but i need some more back up supplies, food etc. saving money can be a hassle hahaha but yeah i will definitely get around to that eventually!

 

[treemanone2003]

Yeah, i can speak for myself but i don't get into discussions with internet trolls, so not much else to say really.

For the benefit of the genuine people on this site, i stick by my original comments.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand this as you calling me a troll.