Dying plants and fish in cycled tank

[fishbulb]

I started out with a fishless cycle and within 3 weeks the tank was completely cycled. I used Eco-Complete substrate and re-used old rocks and an old piece of driftwood, both unused for over 20 years but I boiled them for over an hour and dried them completely a few days before putting the tank together. I cleaned the tank and filter, along with purchasing new filter media. We also had LED lights that came in the kit.

The tank was fully cycled for several weeks before adding any fish or plants, we got too busy to get to the fish store to pick out some fish or plants otherwise I would have purchase plants while establishing the cycle. I did get a Morimo Moss ball which we put in during the cycling.

So the tank was fully cycled for 2-3 weeks (testing multiple times a week) then we went to the fish store (Sept. 5th) bought and added two Java Ferns, Sagittaria subulata, Bacopa caroliniana, Dwarf Amazon Swords and something we forgot the name of but they are very tall with frauns similar to the Hornwort.

The same day we also brought with 6 bloodfin tetras and 6 X-Ray Tetras and a yo-yo loach, then went back and bought a second one we also purchase another piece of driftwood (which i boiled for an hour or so).

After struggling with the plants for a few day to get them to stay in place everything was ok for a few weeks then the plants started to look brownish and melting.

1. The Java ferns started to get black spots and shrivel a little but are still alive.
2. The Sagittaria is doing OK, some of the leaves went brown and died but mostly they have survived.
3. The Bacopa caroliniana would never stay put and always came out of the substrate (But these never had any roots, but a bare stem so I never saw how it could root, nor did they) They all went brown and melted so I got rid of them.
4. The Dwarf Amazon Swords are getting pale and a few of the stems and leaves have died but they are still surviving just much paler.
5. The tall plant (looks like a hornwort but taller) have turned brown and melted from the bottom up but the tops are still green and look ok, however I did remove a few because they were gone. Now after a few weeks of this they have little growths coming up from the stem so that seems positive!

Now as far as the fish....
(Sept. 5th) We bought all the fish and one yo-yo loach then I went a bought another yo-yo loach because I read they needed to be in a small group. Then I found a tank stock calculator and they appeared to be taking 25% of my stocking level because they potentially could grow up to 6" despite what the guy at the fish store told us (old hippe guy) so we took them back, however one of the loaches died before I could return them, they gave me a credit without testing my water.

(Sept. 8th) I purchased a few more X-Ray tetras because i thought we bought 5 but actually had 6 so ended up with 7. After I went to Petco and got 3 Amano shrimp to add to the tank to help with algea, only got 3 just in case they didn't last.

I noticed that during the first 3 weeks after adding the driftwood we bought at the store it started growing this blue-green algea (almost looked like mold) on it, so another reason to have the amano shrimp but they appeared not to eat any of it? At this time I noticed a sickly X-Ray swimming near the top with what looked like gaping scar, it died that evening and I scoped it out. Ileaving them to 6)

Before we stocked the tank I did a 80-90% water change the several hours before we stocked the tank. Then I tested the water several times, without any issues other than the pH level was high 8.0-8.4. I went 2 weeks without a water change to try and get the pH down and started doing weekly changes.

3rd week of Sept.The algea on the driftwood slowly turned brownish and went away mostly, but still have grown on it (no longer blueish-green), the amano shrimp started dying right away. I replaced two and then the three were ok for awhile then another one died, then a second on and I lost the 3rd. But one day a week later I saw a third that seemed to last at least another 2 weeks but then died along with another X-Ray Tetra (which I thought was leaving it to 5, but then noticed another one was gone but no body or any trace)

First & second week of October
Last I lost a bloodfin or two(?) and now tonight (10/17) I scoped out a freshly dead Bloodfin and X-Ray. I noticed during the cold spell we had here in MD that the tank temp went way down to 74 and the fish appeared to not be happy, they huddled near the heater and didn't appear to eat at all. I quickly ordered a new heater 200watt Aqueon to supliment the 100Watt generic one that came with the kit. This appeared to make a huge difference as not the temp is stable at 80 (actually 81, so I unplugged the small heater and turned the large one all the way down.
After the temperature change the fish seem to be happier, or at least more active and less huddling. They always seem to hide when I go to feed them or change the tank but now they are more bold.

I've lost count at this point and definitely didn't know when they all died as some appear to have just vanished, but right now I'm down to 3 (Maybe 4 Bloodfins) and 1 X-Ray.

I've done 25-30% water changes every week, along with testing the water twice a week and I get virtually the same results every time with little to no variations other than Nitrates being higher at the end of the week:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
pH: 8.0-8.2 (seems to have stabilized at 8.0)
Nitrates: 10-20 ppm (higher right before the water change)

I thought I had this all under control and had pour over these threads and many other online resources for hours/days before buying fish. Now I'm just a bit lost and concerned about spending more money on Fish, between fish and plants we've invested $80.

Also, I feed them a pinch of food twice a day (the bloodfins always seem to eat fine but the X-rays always stay at the bottom and feed what comes to them, but now have gotten more bold)

My question is, is it me? or are they just un-healthy fish from the store?

What else do I need to be testing here? I am not adding any nutrients or anything to help boost the plants. I also am only using the LEDs that came with the tank kit, we were only interested in dealing with low light plants for now. Then when we are comfortable, invest in grow lights and CO2 in the future.

At this point I'm affraid to buy anything else, plants or fish but i don't want to leave the X-ray by itself.

I realize this is a lot to digest and there are many questions, but any please help. Really losing my momentum here on this tank, but I don't want to give up now after seeing some plant growth! But it's puzzling that all the fish having been dying off one by one.

My thoughts were the pH is too high for the shrimp, as they will shed and then die off. I then thought the temp was too low.

 

[plantnoob]

How are you introducing the fish to the tank - I.e acclimating them as they come in from the store?

As for the plants, provide more info - light, substrate, co2 or not etc. how long do you run the light for?

Emersed plants always melt and grow back later when first submerged. Some of it is normal.

 

[fishbulb]

How are you introducing the fish to the tank - I.e acclimating them as they come in from the store?

I float the inner plastic bag from the store for about 20-30 mins then pour most of the water out in the sink trying to only dump as little water as possible from the fish store in my tank

As for the plants, provide more info - light, substrate, co2 or not etc. how long do you run the light for?

everything is described in my post, I apologize for the length but I did explain all that. As far as the light I have that on a timer, 10am-10pm only. Also the tank is on an inside corner next a Windows but blind is always closed so it never gets any direct sunlight

Emersed plants always melt and grow back later when first submerged. Some of it is normal.

I do see some rebound, or at least leveling off.


Thank you, I appreciate the info!

 

[fishbulb]

Pics of my setup and survivors

 

[fishbulb]

More pictures #2

 

[fishbulb]

More pics #3

 

[Fresh2o]

The java ferns should be planted so that the rhizome is above the substrate level. Or attached to driftwood or other hardscape.
Swords benefit from root fertilizers.
The lights might be too weak for the frilly stem plant. Note the dead portions are on the lower half and growth is present on the upper third of the tank.

 

[Autumnsky]

What is the light LEDs you have for the tank if it is a kit which one is it? It seems that the stem plants are not getting enough light.

Acclimating the fish would look more like gradually combining the water from your tank into the fish store water, again small amounts, I use a small plastic cup.

First remove 1/3 - 1/2 of the fish store water so there is room to add it back, when it gets full floating in the tank, dump out half again and add tank water back in til full. I then pour water from bag into a $1 store plastic pitcher through a net and put the fish into the tank. It depends on if they are small or larger fish, plus they can jump, how many I pour in at a time. I also have a squarish 8" tall container I can set the bag of water in in between pouring the water out.

Good to not put water into the tank from the bag, you have the right idea there!!!

Pitcher can be washed/bleached, I use a spray bottle of 90% alcohol for most stuff from a healthy tank, I am not worried about - would want to use bleach water to kill possible germs on nets, containers, etc. on new, unknown stuff.

Wonder if your tank was really cycled at 3 weeks most tanks take more like 5-6 weeks?!?

What method did you use to cycle? And do you know what temp it was.

Dying plants will cause spikes and water quality issues as well. Sometimes lights on tanks are made for showing the fish and not specifically for growing plants.

Take a breather for a bit to let things settle down.

Sometimes too many fish on a tank that isn't completely cycled will over burden the system.

 

[fishbulb]

What is the light LEDs you have for the tank if it is a kit which one is it? It seems that the stem plants are not getting enough light.

The LED's are just the basic ones that came with the tank kit, they aren't specific for growing plants. That's why we picked low-light plants (or so we were told they were) I did a lot of reading and saw that standard lighting would be OK for low-light plants
We are definitely interested in a proper plant light, but wanted to get the basics down first before investing another $100 for the lighting.

Acclimating the fish would look more like gradually combining the water from your tank into the fish store water, again small amounts, I use a small plastic cup.

First remove 1/3 - 1/2 of the fish store water so there is room to add it back, when it gets full floating in the tank, dump out half again and add tank water back in til full. I then pour water from bag into a $1 store plastic pitcher through a net and put the fish into the tank. It depends on if they are small or larger fish, plus they can jump, how many I pour in at a time. I also have a squarish 8" tall container I can set the bag of water in in between pouring the water out.

Good to not put water into the tank from the bag, you have the right idea there!!!

Pitcher can be washed/bleached, I use a spray bottle of 90% alcohol for most stuff from a healthy tank, I am not worried about - would want to use bleach water to kill possible germs on nets, containers, etc. on new, unknown stuff.

That sounds like a better idea than what we've been doing, I don't like the idea of mixing that fish-store tank water into my tank but the fish need to acclimate to our tank water also.

Wonder if your tank was really cycled at 3 weeks most tanks take more like 5-6 weeks?!?

What method did you use to cycle? And do you know what temp it was.

This is one thing I feel 99% certain of, I dosed with ammonia and used an API bacteria starter recommended by the fish store, plus we used 3ea/20# bags of Eco-Complete which contained bacteria. I tested multiple times a week for 3+ weeks and it seemed to be cycled perfectly, water tests from then until now haven't shown any change on the cycle status other than pH variance from a low of 6.4(right at the end of the cycle)-8.4 (but generally speaking the pH has stabilized between 7.5-8 and Nitrate levels increasing due to bio-load.

See my post here about the fast-cycle: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/fast-fish-less-cycle-350404.html

Dying plants will cause spikes and water quality issues as well. Sometimes lights on tanks are made for showing the fish and not specifically for growing plants.

Take a breather for a bit to let things settle down.

Sometimes too many fish on a tank that isn't completely cycled will over burden the system.

I think the plant death and the algae may have had and certainly cause stress and death, I know the shrimp seemed to be most affected, except one that lasted almost 3 weeks.

Thanks for your advice and input!

 

[fishbulb]

In the past two weeks i've noticed quite a bit of green algea on the glass walls of the tank.
Not sure how to address it?
I have two fish left.

 

[jessipanda]

Hi fishbulb, and welcome to AA. It definitely seems like you've been doing your homework and working hard to ensure you provide your fish with a wondeful environment.

First off, I want to say you are doing very well, even if it doesn't seem like it right now. Finding a good balance can be excruciatingly difficult at first, but you are getting there. I started out a very similar way when I got back into the hobby, and I'm still learning.

Now, onto your tank. One thing to consider is the eco-complete. I also bought this per the recommendation of my LFS. Unfortunately, it's very misleading. It's extremely expensive and does nothing for your plants (for the most part). In fact, it's pretty much only good for helping kickstart the cycling process as it contains a good amount of the beneficial bacteria needed, which is most likely why your tank cycled so quickly. Mine took 2 weeks to cycle with eco-complete and a small amount of cycled filter media from an established tank. Other than that, it has proved to do nothing for my tank other than cause the pH to skyrocket at first--which may actually be the cause of your pH troubles as well.

For this, I would recommend doing 2 weekly water changes of 50% or more until the pH stablizes. Yes, that's right-- 2 in one week, each week, for however long it may take to stablize. It may only be a month or it may be a few months. Part of your fish loss problems could easily stem from the pH swings you've described. A constant pH is very important as fish are very sensitive to pH swings.

As with pH, a steady temp is important. Temp swings of more than a couple degrees can also stress/weaken fish and plants. If you've lost very few fish since adding the larger heater, then temp swings, possibly during the night, could have been wreaking havoc previously. Try to ensure the temp stays as steady as possible, especially when doing water changes. If you are using tap water that contains chlorine/chloramines, ammonia, or heavy metals which can be toxic to fish, make sure you pre-treat your water with a condition such as Prime. Since I'm on a well, my water is safe for my fish. I just set the temp on my sink to match my tank and run it to the tank with a hose, in case that's an option for you.

For the amano shrimp, they are usually pretty easy to keep in a well established tank, but not so much in a tank that hasn't been up and running awhile. Perhaps put off adding any more shrimp until the tank has been stablized for a long period of time and you have a smooth routine worked out. Then, I would definitely recommend trying them again. Amanos are one of my favorites.

For the plants, the majority really don't look in too bad of shape. Some melting is normal when plants are adjusting to new environments. Try googling “melting aquarium plants” for more info on this. Changing the water more frequently would help them as well. Like mentioned by another member, Java fern needs to have its roots open. They should never be buried in the substrate or the roots with rot. With the other plants such as the sag and swords, try adding some root tabs under the substrate near the roots. This should help with some of the nutrients they may be lacking. Also, they may be getting a bit too much light. Sometimes yellowing of the leaves can indicate the plant is trying to grow and absord nutrients, but doesn't have everything it needs to do so healthily. Since you're not adding a carbon source, I would suspect that is what is missing for them to grow as quickly as they want to with the available light. Try giving the plants a break for a few hours in the middle of the lighting period if possible. If not, add a blackout curtain to the window near the tank. Just because the shades are closed, doesn't mean it's not letting an overabundance of light in. The key is finding a good balance between light, nutrients, and co2.

Now onto the algae. There are many things to consider with algae: types of algae, lighting, and nutrients in the water are among the biggest. As previously mentioned with the plants, balance is key. Different types of algae can grow from different issues. So knowing what type you're dealing with will help you control it. However, one thing to start with would be reducing the time period for the lights. By doing as I previously mentioned and splitting the lighting into two phases with a break in the middle, you give the plants more ability to absorb more of the available nutrients, and make it harder for the algae to keep growing. Most algaes need constant light to successfully take over. For example, try changing your lighting from 12 hours straight to on 10am-2pm, 4 hour break, then back on from 6pm-10pm if that can work for you. 12 hours is a long time, even with an LED light fixture. If 8 hours doesn't seem to be enough, you can always increase it a bit. It's all about finding the right balance for your tank.

Also, the acclimation process Autumnsky explained is my favorite way to acclimate. You should also look into a quarantine tank for any future new inhabitants.

Hopefully I have helped with some issues. I wish you the best of luck, and hope you're not too overwhelmed by the hobby. Never be afraid to ask for advice or help with anything!

 

[rlederer]

In my humble opinion, it appears that your pH could be the problem. Tetras like water that is a bit acidic, and soft. How hard is the water? Lower the pH and reduce the hardness and I think that will help.

 

[jessipanda]

In my humble opinion, it appears that your pH could be the problem. Tetras like water that is a bit acidic, and soft. How hard is the water? Lower the pH and reduce the hardness and I think that will help.

Not necessarily. I have rummynose in a pH of 7.8 and they are still doing wonderfully after a year. Also, I would never recommend lowering or raising pH except in specific cases, and only with very experienced aquarists as doing so can be difficult to keep precise. A steady pH is more important than trying to match the “natural” environment of the fish. If acclimated properly to a stable tank, there's no reason rummynose wouldn't be able to do well in 8.0 pH.

Fishbulb, please do not try to mess with your pH. Most likely, doing so would only make things worse.

 

[rlederer]

Let me clarify. Yes, fish can tolerate a fairly wide pH range, depending on the species and where they came from. But a pH change of .5 is actually pretty high as pH is on a log scale. If the fish were bought at the fish shop which had a pH of 7.2 and were put in a pH of 8.4, that's a drastic change.
That said, I do not advocate tinkering with chemicals or peat to change the pH. If the tap water is alkaline and hard, get a reverse osmosis setup. Better and cheaper than losing a bunch of fish.

 

[Caliban07]

Fish only care about why the ph changes or what is causing the ph to change. Ph change due to weak acids do not harm fish.

To use someone else's analogy. Vinegar is a weak acid. Putting it in your mouth will cause the ph in your mouth to fall but it does not harm you. Hydrochloric acid is a strong acid. If you put this acid in your mouth you would probably be without a mouth for the rest of your life.

The plant issue is simple. You need more co2. You can buy liquid co2 for now and follow the recommended dosages.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seachem-67104530-Flourish-Excel-500ml/dp/B000256962

You should see an improvement pretty rapidly. For more information on why co2 is so important read this:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/do-i-have-enough-co2-a-closer-look-351974.html

You need to reduce the light to 8 hours and increase the amount of cleaning and water changes.

 

[fishbulb]

Hi fishbulb, and welcome to AA. It definitely seems like you've been doing your homework and working hard to ensure you provide your fish with a wondeful environment.

First off, I want to say you are doing very well, even if it doesn't seem like it right now. Finding a good balance can be excruciatingly difficult at first, but you are getting there. I started out a very similar way when I got back into the hobby, and I'm still learning.

Now, onto your tank. One thing to consider is the eco-complete. I also bought this per the recommendation of my LFS. Unfortunately, it's very misleading. It's extremely expensive and does nothing for your plants (for the most part). In fact, it's pretty much only good for helping kickstart the cycling process as it contains a good amount of the beneficial bacteria needed, which is most likely why your tank cycled so quickly. Mine took 2 weeks to cycle with eco-complete and a small amount of cycled filter media from an established tank. Other than that, it has proved to do nothing for my tank other than cause the pH to skyrocket at first--which may actually be the cause of your pH troubles as well.

For this, I would recommend doing 2 weekly water changes of 50% or more until the pH stablizes. Yes, that's right-- 2 in one week, each week, for however long it may take to stablize. It may only be a month or it may be a few months. Part of your fish loss problems could easily stem from the pH swings you've described. A constant pH is very important as fish are very sensitive to pH swings.

As with pH, a steady temp is important. Temp swings of more than a couple degrees can also stress/weaken fish and plants. If you've lost very few fish since adding the larger heater, then temp swings, possibly during the night, could have been wreaking havoc previously. Try to ensure the temp stays as steady as possible, especially when doing water changes. If you are using tap water that contains chlorine/chloramines, ammonia, or heavy metals which can be toxic to fish, make sure you pre-treat your water with a condition such as Prime. Since I'm on a well, my water is safe for my fish. I just set the temp on my sink to match my tank and run it to the tank with a hose, in case that's an option for you.

For the amano shrimp, they are usually pretty easy to keep in a well established tank, but not so much in a tank that hasn't been up and running awhile. Perhaps put off adding any more shrimp until the tank has been stablized for a long period of time and you have a smooth routine worked out. Then, I would definitely recommend trying them again. Amanos are one of my favorites.

For the plants, the majority really don't look in too bad of shape. Some melting is normal when plants are adjusting to new environments. Try googling “melting aquarium plants” for more info on this. Changing the water more frequently would help them as well. Like mentioned by another member, Java fern needs to have its roots open. They should never be buried in the substrate or the roots with rot. With the other plants such as the sag and swords, try adding some root tabs under the substrate near the roots. This should help with some of the nutrients they may be lacking. Also, they may be getting a bit too much light. Sometimes yellowing of the leaves can indicate the plant is trying to grow and absord nutrients, but doesn't have everything it needs to do so healthily. Since you're not adding a carbon source, I would suspect that is what is missing for them to grow as quickly as they want to with the available light. Try giving the plants a break for a few hours in the middle of the lighting period if possible. If not, add a blackout curtain to the window near the tank. Just because the shades are closed, doesn't mean it's not letting an overabundance of light in. The key is finding a good balance between light, nutrients, and co2.

Now onto the algae. There are many things to consider with algae: types of algae, lighting, and nutrients in the water are among the biggest. As previously mentioned with the plants, balance is key. Different types of algae can grow from different issues. So knowing what type you're dealing with will help you control it. However, one thing to start with would be reducing the time period for the lights. By doing as I previously mentioned and splitting the lighting into two phases with a break in the middle, you give the plants more ability to absorb more of the available nutrients, and make it harder for the algae to keep growing. Most algaes need constant light to successfully take over. For example, try changing your lighting from 12 hours straight to on 10am-2pm, 4 hour break, then back on from 6pm-10pm if that can work for you. 12 hours is a long time, even with an LED light fixture. If 8 hours doesn't seem to be enough, you can always increase it a bit. It's all about finding the right balance for your tank.

Also, the acclimation process Autumnsky explained is my favorite way to acclimate. You should also look into a quarantine tank for any future new inhabitants.

Hopefully I have helped with some issues. I wish you the best of luck, and hope you're not too overwhelmed by the hobby. Never be afraid to ask for advice or help with anything!

Thank you for all the advice and analysis, It sounds like you are right on with you assessment. I had the same assumptions about the issues I'm seeing, which you agree.
I did a lot of research about Eco-Complete and it was often recommended by several posts and articles for planted tanks, it seems like sand and soil may be the best option after further reading??

I always treat my water as I top off my tank after water changes, I average a consistent 30% PCW and dose with declorinator (1 drop per 1gal) as I add water. I do water changes using this device: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000255NXC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Which makes water changes very easy.

I think the pH has stablized to around 7.8, I need to take another sample and see. Also the Temperatue is definately stablized now, the large heater (200w) makes a huge difference. I don't see any swings in temp or more than .5 degrees and that's only when I'm doing water changes, trying to get the perfect temp out of the faucet. I have the thermometer set pretty low, around 76 degrees but I'm getting a consistent 79.5F
The two fish seem to be surviving quite well and are a lot more active. I'll try 2 water changes a week and see if the pH changes anymore.

I'll hold off on the shrimp for now, i got them because of a fuzzy blue/green algea problem on my driftwood but that's long gone now.

As for the plants, they appear to be holding ok. Some show new growth, and I've made sure the java ferns aren't burried anymore, although trying to keep them from floating is challenging without burying some of the root.

I try the root tabs as suggested, and I've changed the light to give the plants a break during the day. I wanted to get started with a low-tech planted setup because we didn't want to spend a whole bunch of money up front before getting experience with planted tanks.
The light we were considering, if and when we move on to a more higher tech solution was: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00U0HMWLI/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1X1FCLNDP7VCN&coliid=IW5AKMT660P55&psc=1
I read through the reviews and it seems to be sufficient for medium to high light plants, and the price is resonable.

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[fishbulb]

Fish only care about why the ph changes or what is causing the ph to change. Ph change due to weak acids do not harm fish.

To use someone else's analogy. Vinegar is a weak acid. Putting it in your mouth will cause the ph in your mouth to fall but it does not harm you. Hydrochloric acid is a strong acid. If you put this acid in your mouth you would probably be without a mouth for the rest of your life.

The plant issue is simple. You need more co2. You can buy liquid co2 for now and follow the recommended dosages.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seachem-67104530-Flourish-Excel-500ml/dp/B000256962

You should see an improvement pretty rapidly. For more information on why co2 is so important read this:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/do-i-have-enough-co2-a-closer-look-351974.html

You need to reduce the light to 8 hours and increase the amount of cleaning and water changes.

Thanks for the advice, I will try dosing with co2 and see how that works.
The idea was to setup a low-tech planted tank to ease into the hobby with minimal cost. We then planned to move into medium to higher light plants.
I was considering the planted light in my response above, also I have a spare 5# co2 tank with regulator for my kegerator that I was considering converting to add into the tank when ready to go more advanced.
Any suggestions on that?

Thanks again!

 

[jessipanda]

Thank you for all the advice and analysis, It sounds like you are right on with you assessment. I had the same assumptions about the issues I'm seeing, which you agree.
I did a lot of research about Eco-Complete and it was often recommended by several posts and articles for planted tanks, it seems like sand and soil may be the best option after further reading??

I'm afraid I can't really offer any opinions on other substrates for indoor planted tanks as I have no experience with anything else as of yet. I will, however, tell you that I have several outdoor ponds & tanks that are dirted with organic potting soil (which is topped with small rock gravel) and the plants look wonderful. When I actually tear my indoor tank down one day, I will most likely either do the same dirt/gravel with it or go with a product called aquasoil. I know a lot of people do have success with easy plants growing in sand though. I'd recommend checking out the many other threads here on the topic of substrate before you decide.

I think the pH has stablized to around 7.8, I need to take another sample and see. Also the Temperatue is definately stablized now, the large heater (200w) makes a huge difference. I don't see any swings in temp or more than .5 degrees and that's only when I'm doing water changes, trying to get the perfect temp out of the faucet. I have the thermometer set pretty low, around 76 degrees but I'm getting a consistent 79.5F
The two fish seem to be surviving quite well and are a lot more active. I'll try 2 water changes a week and see if the pH changes anymore.

I'm glad to hear things are stablizing. Prior to using eco-complete, my pH hovered around 6.8-7.0. After adding it, my pH jumped to 8.2 and ended up stablizing at 7.8 as well. Lucky for me, this all happened prior to adding any inhabitants. I used the acclimation process Autumnsky mentioned earlier in this thread and all 15 of my rummynose tetras are still healthy and happy 1 year later.

As for the plants, they appear to be holding ok. Some show new growth, and I've made sure the java ferns aren't burried anymore, although trying to keep them from floating is challenging without burying some of the root.

It's awesome that you're already seeing new growth! As for the java ferns, you can use thread to tie them to driftwood or rocks. Easier yet is to buy these small metal bands meant for holding down aquarium plants. You can use them to secure the plants to decor or just keep them from floating. Just do what you can to ensure the roots aren't buried.

I'm glad to hear you've found some helpful advice from members here. Keep on learning and putting forth the effort. You won't regret it! [emoji1]

 

[Caliban07]

Thank you for all the advice and analysis, It sounds like you are right on with you assessment. I had the same assumptions about the issues I'm seeing, which you agree.

I did a lot of research about Eco-Complete and it was often recommended by several posts and articles for planted tanks, it seems like sand and soil may be the best option after further reading??



I always treat my water as I top off my tank after water changes, I average a consistent 30% PCW and dose with declorinator (1 drop per 1gal) as I add water. I do water changes using this device: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000255NXC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1



Which makes water changes very easy.



I think the pH has stablized to around 7.8, I need to take another sample and see. Also the Temperatue is definately stablized now, the large heater (200w) makes a huge difference. I don't see any swings in temp or more than .5 degrees and that's only when I'm doing water changes, trying to get the perfect temp out of the faucet. I have the thermometer set pretty low, around 76 degrees but I'm getting a consistent 79.5F

The two fish seem to be surviving quite well and are a lot more active. I'll try 2 water changes a week and see if the pH changes anymore.



I'll hold off on the shrimp for now, i got them because of a fuzzy blue/green algea problem on my driftwood but that's long gone now.



As for the plants, they appear to be holding ok. Some show new growth, and I've made sure the java ferns aren't burried anymore, although trying to keep them from floating is challenging without burying some of the root.



I try the root tabs as suggested, and I've changed the light to give the plants a break during the day. I wanted to get started with a low-tech planted setup because we didn't want to spend a whole bunch of money up front before getting experience with planted tanks.

The light we were considering, if and when we move on to a more higher tech solution was: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00U0HMWL...olid=1X1FCLNDP7VCN&coliid=IW5AKMT660P55&psc=1

I read through the reviews and it seems to be sufficient for medium to high light plants, and the price is resonable.



Thanks again for all your help!

I think that light is a good one. Lots of people use it on this forum. It's quite strong so you may need to dim it depending on the rest of your system parameters.

Liquid co2 will work just fine for easy plants that can handle lower co2 environments. Unfortunately, just using 'low light' plants does not mean they will grow happy and healthily every time.

Lastly I wouldn't change out your substrate. Eco-complete does contain nutrients but they are bound up in a form that the plants cannot obtain. This is how Carib sea get round the marketing aspect. Other than looking pretty awesome in my opinion, eco complete the ability to sequester nutrients ready for plant uptake. So the nutrients that you dose can be stored at the roots as well as the column. That way you are still feeding at both nutrient uptake sites.

Soil has this ability and contains nutrients but it can be messy and problematic initially.

Keep the eco complete and buy some dry fertiliser powders such as potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate. These will last you a very long time and you can use calculators to help with dosing. I just spoon the powders in dry.

Hope this helps.

 

[fishbulb]

So i've added root tabs as suggested: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000255QLG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
And placed several of them burried deep in the substrate as the instructions stated.

I also purchase some Seachem Flourish Excel :https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000256962/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
as suggested and dosing as the instructions say.

Can't say I've noticed a difference but it's only been a few days so I don't expect to see much change.

I also purchased a GH and KH test kit: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003SNCHMA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And tested my water from the faucet and also from the tank. Both had the same results

KH 71.6 ppm (4° dKH)
GH 89.5 ppm (5° dKH)

I also took another pH reading from my tap water, 8.0pH

My tank water consistently reads 7.8 so it's definitely balanced, but is 7.8 still too high?

Also it appears the KH and GH levels appear to be right where I need them.