Fahrenheit 9/11

[frshwaterfinatc]

Actually I don't agree with everthing the the president is doing, in fact I think he can do more to fight terrorism, starting by closing our borders. But at least he is taking the fight to our enemy, our enemy now know its in a fight, not just the empty threats a previous administration issued when we were attacked.

Completely agree with you, Quarryshark.

 

[Atari]

You guys are getting way too aggressive.. this is no longer a fun debate so count me out.

 

[frshwaterfinatc]

Sorry it's not fun for you anymore, Atari... :|

Guess it isn't really fun for me, either- I'm just trying to show people that it's not always a good thing to jump on a bandwagon. For me, I was very interested in the movie when it first came out and intended to see it. Until I saw some of the clips and read some articles promoting it. Something didn't seem quite right, and now that I've looked into it and found all these deceptions, I KNOW it's not the right way to go. Nor do I agree wholly with George Bush. But I do know that I'm steering clear of the side that feels it must use fallacies to promote their agenda. :?

 

[RocketSeason]

Well I didn't thing that this was to agressive. More of a healthy discussion is all. You should see some of the conversations I have had on a forum dedicated to computer art. Talk about Liberal! But alot of those guys are living all over the world so it is interesting to get their take on the matter.

Thanks for the Info frshwaterfinatic! is there a link to the place you got that?

 

[quarryshark]

You guys are getting way too aggressive.. this is no longer a fun debate so count me out.

Aw come on Atari. Wouldn't be the same without you.

 

[frshwaterfinatc]

Quarryshark mentioned this site http://www.bowlingfortruth.com and the site I got the book from is www.grassfire.org. Glad you found it helpful, RocketSeason!

 

[Atari]

Sorry.. the debate is fine, I guess I've just had a rough day so not really feeling up to it.

You guys sure are passionate about your politics though.. It's nothing like that over here in UK.

 

[RocketSeason]

We are also passionate about guns here. As Micheal Moore so humorously pointed out.

 

[frshwaterfinatc]

I think we're passionate because this is a relatively new country with a new form of government. Everyone has their own ideas about how to make America work in the long run. And yes, you did have a rough day. How is your dad now?

 

[Atari]

He's better thanks.. just put him to bed so I'm trying to get my own head straight now lol.

 

[quarryshark]

He's better thanks.. just put him to bed so I'm trying to get my own head straight now lol.

Rough day for you. Tomorrow will be better. we may differ in opinions, but we all care.

 

[rubysoho]

one thing... if MM was actually telling lies, wouldn't you think he'd be slammed with charges of slander? Yes there is free speech in this country, but it does have a stopping point, and slander is one of them. It is just a thought...

 

[frshwaterfinatc]

No, because most people are naiive enough not to notice. And he doesn't directly lie- he just gives impressions, "connect-the-dots theories", that lead the viewer to believe falsities.

 

[rubysoho]

I thought he made some pretty bold statements in the film, and I never felt like it was a "connect-the-dots" process. He was pretty straight forward with facts, which you say are complete lies, thereby making him accountable for what he is saying which makes him a target for slander charges. Trust me, I've gone over this film extensivly in 2 classes (college summer classes) and looked at it from all views (a reason why I haven't taken part of the discussion because I got burnt out on it from class). If MM was telling complete lies, the Bush Administration wouldn't have just sat around. I see a lot of publications coming out from random sources with no credibility supporting BOTH sides of the controversy, but they still only twisted things so it would fit their side perfectly, something I will admit MM did in his opinionated documentary. However, no true rebuttal has come from credible sources, and until then, I beleive there must be some truth in what MM is saying... but take it with a grain of salt, like you have to do with any politician or anyone trying to argue politics. That is just my view on it

 

[quarryshark]

I thought he made some pretty bold statements in the film, and I never felt like it was a "connect-the-dots" process. He was pretty straight forward with facts, which you say are complete lies, thereby making him accountable for what he is saying which makes him a target for slander charges. Trust me, I've gone over this film extensivly in 2 classes (college summer classes) and looked at it from all views (a reason why I haven't taken part of the discussion because I got burnt out on it from class). If MM was telling complete lies, the Bush Administration wouldn't have just sat around. I see a lot of publications coming out from random sources with no credibility supporting BOTH sides of the controversy, but they still only twisted things so it would fit their side perfectly, something I will admit MM did in his opinionated documentary. However, no true rebuttal has come from credible sources, and until then, I beleive there must be some truth in what MM is saying... but take it with a grain of salt, like you have to do with any politician or anyone trying to argue politics. That is just my view on it

I understand what you are saying, but consider this. How would it look for the president, in an election year to be filing slander charges against this man. Or anyone in a prominent republican role filing charges. That would not be a very smart thing to do IMO.

 

[rubysoho]

well, wouldn't it be better if Bush proved those statements false? Rather than let a majority of people believe it to be true, thereby losing large amounts of votes? If Bush could prove MM wrong, I don't think there would be much of a race in the next election. Honestly, I would like MM to be proven false by someone more credible, in court. Until then, I think Bush is just trying to ignore the arguments because he cannot prove them false. Of course, I am only one person and cannot represent the whole of america, so what do I really know??

 

[ambulocetus]

I would have to argue against that

That would not be a very smart thing to do

If there really was nothing to hide, then filling charges would be the best option, it would be a showcase of truth, and would air-out all the misconceptions going around. Now if there is truth to the claims, then it is a bad idea, as someone will dig around and eventually find the truth. IMO you don't need to be afraid, if you don't have anything to hide!

Rough day for you. Tomorrow will be better. we may differ in opinions, but we all care.

That is the number one reason why this forum beats out all and any other forum! You hit it right on the head there, have some of my miniscule amount of kudos!!

 

[quarryshark]

well, wouldn't it be better if Bush proved those statements false? Rather than let a majority of people believe it to be true, thereby losing large amounts of votes? If Bush could prove MM wrong, I don't think there would be much of a race in the next election. Honestly, I would like MM to be proven false by someone more credible, in court. Until then, I think Bush is just trying to ignore the arguments because he cannot prove them false. Of course, I am only one person and cannot represent the whole of america, so what do I really know??

Yes but do the majority of the people really believe MM? Has there been a poll?
If MM was a major political figure, it may have been different. But (and this is just my opinion) by filing a suite, it is giving the man more credibility by the sheer act of acknowledgement. I may be off, but from a political standpoint, I don't think they want to give MM any more attention than he has already attracted.
Personally, I would go after him, but I'm not the president.

 

[quarryshark]

Rough day for you. Tomorrow will be better. we may differ in opinions, but we all care.

That is the number one reason why this forum beats out all and any other forum! You hit it right on the head there, have some of my miniscule amount of kudos!!

Thanks, thats very nice. I may not agree with him on everything, but he's a good guy. (just don't tell him I said this 8) )

 

[rubysoho]

hehe, good points quarryshark. But I do think there are a lot of people who believe MM, and of course a lot who don't. Some follow his opinions as if they were the bible, while some think he made good points in some areas and was a complete idiot in others. Then there are people who won't even listen to a thing he says because of whatever reason they have in their head. I think it is good to really listen to what an opponent has to say. And if I were Bush (and I don't like saying that because I am not a Bush fan, hehe) I would certainly answer MM by crushing his arguments into the ground and show the public I am the right person for presidency. Just ignoring arguments, in my opinion, shows that Bush is either 1. afraid he might get in more trouble by losing to MM in the public's eye 2. hoping by ignoring, MM will just fade away or 3. trying to hide these truths by not acknowledging them. Of course, I'm not Bush, I don't know what he is thinking (and sometimes can't understand what he is saying either... hehe, just picking, I think his nerves are what screws up his speech sometimes, stagefright sucks...) so I can't say for sure what his plans are. I'm still waiting for some real facts in this dang election so I can start figuring out who I want to vote for. This will be my first time voting and I want to make an informed decision!