Finally getting fancy goldies!!

[Reygan2]

Ok, here we go...first sign of issues with my oranda. He began sitting on the bottom of the tank yesterday evening, and now he's pretty much staying there. No outward signs of anything wrong at all. I have a theory, of course it could be a number of parasites/internal issues, but considering that this is one of the fish that I got directly from the shipping bag and it never went in the tanks at petsmart, maybe this is more of a digestive system upset. I've been feeding them such a variety that it could have upset his digestive tract or caused a blockage? I know the sand was a new thing for them because they all acted a little weird when I first put them in the tank. It's like they were sucking it up, and it didn't look like all of it was expelled. Anyway, with that being a possibility, before I medicate, what is the best course of action? Believe me, I've been frantically researching this topic all morning and can't seem to find anything out except water quality issues, which we can rule out. Just for the heck of it I did a 50% pwc a little while ago. I've been monitoring water parameters daily since adding the fish. Nitrates had reached between 10 and 20ppm so I wasn't sure if that could be an issue. I've kept all sorts of fish with nitrates in that range.
I probably should move this to the unhealthy fish forum, but since it's cold water I'd like to keep it here if possible.
Please, any help would be appreciated, I'll do anything to help this fish.

 

[Autumnsky]

If it were just a water quality issue he would perk up and seem to be better a little while after the water change.

One other possibility, when I was reading about the effects of nitrIte on fish it mentioned that some can live through the NitrIte issue but have suffered severe damage and then just die a few weeks later after the event. Of course it was during a marathon night, reading link after link, late at night, and I would never remember exactly what the article was.

This one has a little bit of info on it.
Frequently asked questions on nitrite — Practical Fishkeeping Magazine

 

[Reygan2]

I made sure the tank was completely cycled before adding these guys. No chance of nitrite poisoning. I've checked daily, no trace. I think he's constipated. After an epsom salt bath he's acting better. He ate a shelled pea earlier today and when I returned home he was out and about. Not
completely back to his perky self though. It may be overkill but I dosed API general cure too. So he's doing better, but I don't know if we're out of the woods. He'll get another epsom salt bath and peas tomorrow. We'll see.

 

[Autumnsky]

I was thinking the Moor possibly had that happen during the shipping experience, not in your tank.

Other thing might be to go the the lfs where it came from, and talk with the staff, if any of the other fish from the shipment might have had issues, (maybe they would tell the truth) if so or not??? I they had returns of dead ones or a number of them die in their tanks???

 

[Reygan2]

I see. I haven't updated on the moor. Good news though, the spots healed up nicely and he is just fine. Normal poop, eating, and active. He's just fine and I've decided to keep him.
Good suggestion about checking up on the others that shipped with my guys!

 

[Reygan2]

I went to pick up my 75g at Petco and they sold out. Not a 75g available with 100 mile radius of my house[emoji35]

 

[Autumnsky]

Nooooo! Are they getting another shipment??? You need a big tank, maybe find out if and when - and if they will hold one for you.

Is there an online order to ship to store??

 

[Reygan2]

I'll find out tomorrow. If I can't get one right away these babies will be ok until I can purchase one, even if I can't get the $1 per gallon deal.
The oranda got another epsom salt bath today. He hasn't been hanging out on the bottom but he still doesn't seem back to normal, plus he went after the food like crazy during feeding time but he spat everything he ate back out. I don't know what's going on there.

 

[Delapool]

Not a good sign. No bloating? Pooping ok?

 

[Reygan2]

No bloating, but I have yet to see him poop. That has me worried. He's eaten peas a couple of times up until last night. I'm going to continue with the epsom salt baths for another day or so, they don't seem to bother him.

 

[Autumnsky]

Maybe look into the medicated flake food for internal parasites. If you can't find it locally Peabody's Paradise has a few kinds. I think would be better than the liquid you soak food in. My fish have eaten the food right up. For about a year or so now I have started out the fish after one nor 2 normal feedings adding the medicated in for a couple then feed for 3 days only medicated then a day of regular foods then another couple days of the worming food again. Also i would treat the whole thank wit Epsom salts for 2-3 weeks.

 

[Reygan2]

Maybe look into the medicated flake food for internal parasites. If you can't find it locally Peabody's Paradise has a few kinds. I think would be better than the liquid you soak food in. My fish have eaten the food right up. For about a year or so now I have started out the fish after one nor 2 normal feedings adding the medicated in for a couple then feed for 3 days only medicated then a day of regular foods then another couple days of the worming food again. Also i would treat the whole thank wit Epsom salts for 2-3 weeks.

I have medicated flakes, but I cannot find an expiration date anywhere on the package. I've had them for a few months, so I'm not sure if they are still effective. To be safe I'll order more.
What would be the right epsom salt dose for a 40g?

 

[Reygan2]

Does he look bloated?

 

[Autumnsky]

I have medicated flakes, but I cannot find an expiration date anywhere on the package. I've had them for a few months, so I'm not sure if they are still effective. To be safe I'll order more.
What would be the right epsom salt dose for a 40g?

As long as they have been dry and didn't get stuck together or clumpy, evidence of too much moisture, you should be alright to use them, if the package could be many years old then time for new ones. The antibiotic effect reduces a small amount, more and more so over the expiration, over time, but if kept dry it retains a useful amount for a few years. If in sunlight or moisture then not good. Older by a year or 2 probably still useful enough to help but fresh ones you know it is stronger potency. So my thinking is 75-85% effacy is better than 0.

Also check in the lfs for the expiration too, as just because you just bought them doesn't make them fresh (of course being un opened they would be fresh-er ).

As for the Epsom salt. You might start with the 1 tsp per gallon if you'd like to. I would just start with the 1 Tablespoon per gallon if I were doing it for my fish.

1 tsp p/g so 40 tsp plus the amount you have in your filters, calculated into a cup measurement would be about .85 - .90 Cup of Epsom. (thank you calculating conversion tables).

1TBL p/g is 40 tbl is 2.5 Cups

So how I do it is I dissolve the ES into very hot water in the pitcher or bucket.

When all but a few little crystals remain, its okay of they DO all dissolve, I add cool water so I can get the concentrate to tank/room temp.

TREAT with dechlorinator/conditioner.

Then I add that to a pitcher (empty Gallon water jug works great because it has a top) or other container to add to your pwc or tank water.

At first I do a pwc so I don't have to worry about that for a little bit.

Add the concentate for the whole tank you just mixed in increments, say 5 additions of liquid concentrate over the course of 24 hours.

~~~~~
Then in the future additions of the concentrate when you make up a new batch - I try and do a concentrate mix ahead of time so I know I need to add 2 cups of concentrate per 50% pwc or what ever quantity you want to do. You can add Sharpie lines to the jug/pitcher (water jug/dollar store pitchers) so you only have to do the measuring one time. (In 1 cup or 2 cup increments or 1/4 of jug what ever works for you) It makes the job of adding it so much more convenient to me.

Add the concentrate at the beginning of adding the water when you add the conditioner. I am using bucket pwc method of adding water to tank so that is how do it. I would add the concentrate after adding water if you use a Python type method.

Then keep that ratio for 2-3 weeks treatment period.

If all seems better then just reduce the ratio down to a tsp p/g for a couple more weeks and then as you do pwc, just do not add it back in and after a few changes you will be back to just tap water pwc.

 

[Autumnsky]

Here is a video of Champion fish, for you to compare to.

 

[Reygan2]

As long as they have been dry and didn't get stuck together or clumpy, evidence of too much moisture, you should be alright to use them, if the package could be many years old then time for new ones. The antibiotic effect reduces a small amount, more and more so over the expiration, over time, but if kept dry it retains a useful amount for a few years. If in sunlight or moisture then not good. Older by a year or 2 probably still useful enough to help but fresh ones you know it is stronger potency. So my thinking is 75-85% effacy is better than 0.

Also check in the lfs for the expiration too, as just because you just bought them doesn't make them fresh (of course being un opened they would be fresh-er ).

As for the Epsom salt. You might start with the 1 tsp per gallon if you'd like to. I would just start with the 1 Tablespoon per gallon if I were doing it for my fish.

1 tsp p/g so 40 tsp plus the amount you have in your filters, calculated into a cup measurement would be about .85 - .90 Cup of Epsom. (thank you calculating conversion tables).

1TBL p/g is 40 tbl is 2.5 Cups

So how I do it is I dissolve the ES into very hot water in the pitcher or bucket.

When all but a few little crystals remain, its okay of they DO all dissolve, I add cool water so I can get the concentrate to tank/room temp.

TREAT with dechlorinator/conditioner.

Then I add that to a pitcher (empty Gallon water jug works great because it has a top) or other container to add to your pwc or tank water.

At first I do a pwc so I don't have to worry about that for a little bit.

Add the concentate for the whole tank you just mixed in increments, say 5 additions of liquid concentrate over the course of 24 hours.

~~~~~
Then in the future additions of the concentrate when you make up a new batch - I try and do a concentrate mix ahead of time so I know I need to add 2 cups of concentrate per 50% pwc or what ever quantity you want to do. You can add Sharpie lines to the jug/pitcher (water jug/dollar store pitchers) so you only have to do the measuring one time. (In 1 cup or 2 cup increments or 1/4 of jug what ever works for you) It makes the job of adding it so much more convenient to me.

Add the concentrate at the beginning of adding the water when you add the conditioner. I am using bucket pwc method of adding water to tank so that is how do it. I would add the concentrate after adding water if you use a Python type method.

Then keep that ratio for 2-3 weeks treatment period.

If all seems better then just reduce the ratio down to a tsp p/g for a couple more weeks and then as you do pwc, just do not add it back in and after a few changes you will be back to just tap water pwc.

Fantastic!! Thank you!! I haven't been able to find information anywhere near as detailed. This will be my next course of action. Medicated flakes are ordered and on the way. This fish is going to pull through!

 

[Reygan2]

So happy to report that he/she is doing just fine! Tonight she had her first normal, food colored poop. She is eating and acting like a normal goldfish again. I was worried for several days. She'd stopped eating and was bottom sitting. I used the epsom salt, general cure and prazipro, along with placing her in a qt tank for treatment and warming up the water to 74. I'd read something about reabsorbed eggs? I was told in another forum that was a possibility because one day she excreted something very odd looking that looked like a string of eggs. I have no idea, but I do know she's feeling better and on the mend. I'm keeping her in the qt tank for a while to make sure, but I super happy that she's getting better. Thanks for the help!

 

[Autumnsky]

That is a relief to hear! So glad.

 

[Reygan2]

So excited!! I just ordered the most beautiful bright yellow goldfish baby from Rain Garden in Hawaii. He'll be here Thursday.

 

[Autumnsky]

Yup, you're hooked!!! Can't wait to see the little jewel!