Findings from 1 year of algae experiments

[jarrod0987]

Final Report.

Some people will argue that all these results are invalid because they were not done with a proper control group etc. They think such experiments are not valuable due to this. So I have a few answers for them.
1. Wheres your experiments?
2. We are not in the controlled experiment phase. We are in the observation phase.
3. Scientist often run these quick and dirty experiments to see if running a more expensive controlled experiment is even worth the time and money. They just don't publish them.

Now moving on to what I observed (Not proved)

Light
I don't think there is any disputing that no light = no algae.
That's not much fun though. I will say that 4 days of darkens is not that effective with the green algae types tested. 30 days is probably more like it. There was still 5% left after 20 days of darkness I recently tested on various types of green algae.

Algae Eaters.
What I really learned is forget about ultra low nutrient approaches in FW. It did not have the desired effect. Algae eaters are the way to go and you must have the right ones for the type of algae as well as the right amount. Some people are probably thinking I already knew that. Nope, it was not known it was believed without evidence. No one I know has ever documented a Ultra Low Nutrient Fresh Water system before. So if it was not tried it was not known. Now it is

I am a big fan of:
Rosy Barbs for Green Hair (Tested)
Oto Cinclus Catfish for Brown Diatom (Tested)
Malaysian Trumpet Snails for Keeping the Glass Clean (Tested)
1 Amano Shrimp per Gal for Black Beard Algae. (Testing soon)
There are others but have not tested them all.

Nutrients in general
In SW, we have great results from keeping Ultra Low Nutrients. That means keeping Nitrate and Phosphate down into the 0.x ppm range. We have skimmers and carbon dosing which work well do accomplish this.
I thought If I did the same thing a different way in FW I might get the same results. It did not work. It helped for sure but the green stain and fuzz algae came anyways. Combined with the right algae eaters such as OTO and MTS and the proper light cycle I think this is a valid approach. However, expensive.

Nitrate
I found out Nitrate is actually more important then I thought. 0.1 ppm - 10 ppm doesn't effect things that much but above 10 ppm you start to have a lot of green types of algae appearing and growing very fast. My big discovery is that wood chips under the substrate can really reduce this to levels around 0.1 ppm very quickly. However, this did not eliminate all algae as I hoped.

Nitrogen
There are other sources of nitrogen besides nitrate. Ammonia and Urea were also tested. Some say Ammonia is the true cause of algae. I have a very sensitive meter for that. It seemed to have no major effect. Urea caused a much stronger outbreak effect. It was the only thing I could find to stimulate the growth of green hair algae. I conclude a good bio filter and aeration are very important for breaking this down and avoiding hair algae. Having a bio filter that keeps ammonia undetectable is one thing. Having enough to keep the urea from accumulating is probably another. Only when I got the level down somewhere below 0.09 ppm Nitrate did the algae start to die but this is impractical with fish or plants in the system.

Phosphate
Before, I was always a big believer in the phosphate causes algae idea. In SW it does, but so don't organics and nitrates.
Here is what I found in FW.
Below 4 ppm you may get green spot algae on your glass which is hard to scrub off. I use a credit card.
If you have a tank with low or no Nitrate and really high phosphate nothing seemed to happen.
If you have a tank that already has high nitrate and you add high phosphate the algae explodes even more.

Green Stain and Fuzz.
If there is enough light these types of algae will grow no matter what (Achievable) level of N and P you have.
I think Oto's and MTS are great for this issue. Or no light which is boring.

White fuzz
This type of algae seems to form on top of other types of algae when they die.

Hair Algae
I was unable to get this type of algae to bloom until I added Urea as discussed above.

Water Changes.
WC will never keep nutrients down to the parts per billion level needed to prevent all algae. However, it will most likely keep it in an acceptable range so there will be no major blooms.

Organics.
There are so many compounds in this category that it seems improper to lump them all into one word. The only things we have in the FW side of the hobby I am aware of to combat the buildup of organics is Activated Carbon or Purigen. I tested them extensively.They certainly help with water yellowing, smell, and clouding. They defiantly do not prevent algae. I am not even sure they help much in that regard. The right algae eaters is a much much cheaper and more entertaining way.


That's it. I don't think I left anything out. It's time for a long rest. Feel free to PM me if you have questions. I no longer plan to debate with my critics. I realize there mind is made up and I cannot change it with any amount of evidence, documentation, or logic. When I started this series of FW experiments over a year ago I thought it was 10% of the hobby holding back 90% of the people from advancing into knew discoveries and knowledge. I have to say that after trying many forums that it is more like 98% holding back the 2%. Most are just not interested and some feel the need to defend the past beliefs to the death for some reason. No new knowledge could possibly be useful or right.I am moving on to other hobbies soon.Might do some coral farming again some day.Thank You from the bottom of my heart to my few supporters. I gave you my best.

Jarrod0987

 

[Mebbid]

Good experiments, i love all the info!

 

[aqua_chem]

Organics.
There are so many compounds in this category that it seems improper to lump them all into one word. The only things we have in the FW side of the hobby I am aware of to combat the buildup of organics is Activated Carbon or Purigen. I tested them extensively.They certainly help with water yellowing, smell, and clouding. They defiantly do not prevent algae. I am not even sure they help much in that regard. The right algae eaters is a much much cheaper and more entertaining way.

With the exception of cyanobacteria, you wouldn't expect high levels of organics to affect algae directly. Algae, being autotrophic, makes its own organics from scratch. You would expect a heterotrophic organism like fungi or some bacteria to do well. Organics can be a proxy for generally bad tank maintenance, which can lead to ammonia, poor flow, or other causes of algae blooms.


Are you using an electrode for these measurements? Also, what kind of light are you operating under?

 

[jarrod0987]

With the exception of cyanobacteria, you wouldn't expect high levels of organics to affect algae directly. Algae, being autotrophic, makes its own organics from scratch. You would expect a heterotrophic organism like fungi or some bacteria to do well. Organics can be a proxy for generally bad tank maintenance, which can lead to ammonia, poor flow, or other causes of algae blooms.


Are you using an electrode for these measurements? Also, what kind of light are you operating under?

Questions first. 1 tank has the Satellite LED+ from Current USA. Maxed out full spectrum mode most of the time.

Other tank has 4 T5's above it, 1 10,ooo K 1 purple 2 blue. Yes I know they were for SW. Just wanted to see what happened

Regarding your electrode question I am not sure what your asking if I was measuring. I have no way to measure organics.

A lot of people on FW planted side do believe organics are related to algae. Myself, I can't say for sure. I will say ROX and Purigen did not seem to matter.

On that subject I heard some interesting discussion over at the scapfu podcasts on algae. Sorry, I can't remember which one. They are saying there is a correlation with a large bacterial population and algae. Of course having a lot of organics would eventually lead to increased bacterial population I would think? My theory is that although algae is auto tropic, it is not as complex as a plant etc. Maybe it needs things that it cannot make and needs bacteria to produce it for it. Some folks say Lamanea(one strain of BBA) needs B12 but this theory is new and still just a theory. It is way beyond my means to verify. I tried to read a very serious book on algae written by 3 DR.s but it was way above my head. Much discussion about there organelles etc. Was all Greek to me.Maybe in another 10 years there will be more info like there was in the last 10 years with SW.