Fish Died of Ammonia Poisoning, Cycle?

[Madamayo]

I have been following their advice. And what I don't understand is how that statement didn't seem calm?

Just because I can't afford to go out RIGHT NOW and spend $30 on a full test kit doesn't mean I'm ignoring their advice. I have been following all the advice is been given except spending money on a test kit because I honestly can't afford it right now.

I did not get fish with the intentions of killing them, and your remarks aren't exactly helping the situation either. Do you expect me to magically breathe life back into the fish? It was already dying this morning when I posted so there isn't exactly anything I could do. It's called cutting your losses and making a new plan, hence waiting to remove the fish and starting a fishless cycle so this doesn't happen in the future.

Plus I've been reading all the other articles on this site and not one other person I've read about saying their fish is going to die got flamed, all because they said euthanasia instead.

Give me a break, I'm new to this, and it's clearly not going easy for me. The fish is dead now anyways.

Now can we get back on topic? I really want to know if anyone has experience fishless cycling a 10 gallon tank, and if they have any tips. The links I keep getting sent to me aren't as helpful as one would think, and are just confusing me even more. I came here to ask for help to STOP killing fish, so let's focus on that.

 

[paytertot]

Sir, you need to calm down and accept the advice that these nice people are giving you. If you don't like what they are telling you, then... Quite frankly, too bad. I am not trying to be rude but they know what they're doing. My advice to you is to euthanize the suffering fish if it is past saving. If not, return it.
Then, if there are no more fish in the tank, purchase an API master test kit, and re-read the article on fishless cycling. Then, you can kindly ask any other questions you may have. We are here as a community to help you, not get yelled at for trying to help.
In parting, I would like to remind you to please be nice, because all of us here have the ability to report any misconduct. Now I hope you get everything figured out and have a great day

 

[Madamayo]

Sir, you need to calm down and accept the advice that these nice people are giving you. If you don't like what they are telling you, then... Quite frankly, too bad. I am not trying to be rude but they know what they're doing. My advice to you is to euthanize the suffering fish if it is past saving. If not, return it.
Then, if there are no more fish in the tank, purchase an API master test kit, and re-read the article on fishless cycling. Then, you can kindly ask any other questions you may have. We are here as a community to help you, not get yelled at for trying to help.
In parting, I would like to remind you to please be nice, because all of us here have the ability to report any misconduct. Now I hope you get everything figured out and have a great day

It would appear you neglected to read my previous post. I need someone to help me because I don't get all these links, its a TON of information to take in.

Let me repeat it again: Does anyone have experience fishless cycling a 10 gallon tank.

 

[paytertot]

To answer your question, yes.
To ask one of my own, do you have the ammonia test?

 

[Maltimomma]

Of course I wake up and another fish is dead, the other is clearly suffocating on the surface...

I think I'm just going to let it die and do a fishless cycle. I am surrounded by incompetence right now..... Sorry if I'm venting frustration but it's just rediculous.

1. This is my girlfriend's tank, which I have been busting my *** over everyday to try and get these levels balanced.

2. I ask my girlfriend to get me a test kit, and of course she just brings a shitty nitrate test strip kit so I honestly have no idea what the No2/No3 levels are.

3. I asked her only friend with a fish tank to bring me some gravel/filter scraping, ANYTHING to get some probiotics... so she brings me a bottle of her tanks water and tells me to %50 cycle every week.

So ya, I am just going to let it die, dump some ammonia in, and just do my own thing. The "expert" at the fish store actually AGREED with her friend's idiotic directions.

Thank you for giving me the time to rant for a second.... ahhhh.....

EDIT: This is not my fish tank, so I have already agreed with her that sure I'll help take care of it, but the supplies/kits are her responsibility, because she needs to learn how to take care of them herself.

I understand your frustration. Have you tried getting your girlfriend to read all the advice here and her reading all of the links. Maybe if she had a better understanding of what needs to be done and what she is doing to the poor fish it would help both of you. Just a suggestion.

 

[paytertot]

Once you have a way to test ammonia, I will very gladly give you step by step help and I'm sorry you are frustrated

 

[Aspencer]

Here is the short version...
1. for a fishless cycle, you need to have your tank set up and dose you tank with some sort of ammonia source, fish food, Ace hardware pure ammonia to 4 ppm. Hence, you need an ammonia test kit..

2. You wait until bacteria forms that eats Ammonia and turns it to NitrItes...probably a couple of weeks give or take a few days..

3. When NitrItes appear, another type of bacteria forms that eats NitrItes and changes it to NitrAtes...hence you need a NitrItes testing kit.

4.When the two types of bacteria eats all the Ammonia and NitrItes leaving NitrAtes, you are cycled and ready for fish.

5. Change water to drop NItrAtes below 20 and add fish.

6. Test water during initial stages of fish to make sure Ammonia and NitrItes are 0 and NitrAtes are below 20. When levels are above these, water changes are required.

 

[Madamayo]

Thank you very much for the help!

As for the ammonia test kit, I don't have one yet. =/ Need to wait for my paycheck first.

Would it be possible to start my fishless cycle with just my nitrite/nitrate test kit, or should I just wait? I have a PPM/TDS tester, so could I just take the PPM of the water before adding ammonia, and measure by subtraction new PPM from old PPM?

Also I have some BioZyme, and I read that when added properly with ammonia, you can have a nitrogen cycle ready within a week. Is this feasible?

 

[Madamayo]

I understand your frustration. Have you tried getting your girlfriend to read all the advice here and her reading all of the links. Maybe if she had a better understanding of what needs to be done and what she is doing to the poor fish it would help both of you. Just a suggestion.

We will definitely review the material together tonight. Guess I overlooked that idea in my frustration, but two heads are definitely better then one.

 

[Aspencer]

Thank you very much for the help!

As for the ammonia test kit, I don't have one yet. =/ Need to wait for my paycheck first.

Would it be possible to start my fishless cycle with just my nitrite/nitrate test kit, or should I just wait? I have a PPM/TDS tester, so could I just take the PPM of the water before adding ammonia, and measure by subtraction new PPM from old PPM?

I am not sure what ppm/tds tester is. You could cancel that.

You could either, put some fish food in your tank and let it decay and produce ammonia and get you cycle started and then when you get an ammonia test kit, you could test and dose up to 4 ppm (this is the standard dose advised) but you would get a headstart on cycling..just a pinch or two.

 

[Aspencer]

And yes, you could get started with just those two kits since you have no fish in there so ammonia would not bother anything. You would know you are on your way when NitrItes started showing up. Don't start testing for NitrAtes until NitrItes show up.

 

[Ghostriderphoto]

You can leave the dead fish in the tank as well to start producing ammonia until you can afford to get the test kit. It will give you a head start. For my ten gallon I bought the Ace Hardware janitorial ammonia to dose my tank with. It only takes a few drops. I also purchased an ACTIVE sponge filter from Angelsplus to jump start my cycle. All in all... API master test kit approx $30, active filter $8.50 plus shipping and ammonia $5.00. Also a heater would be great to elevate your tank water to 84-86F for optimal bacteria growth and "Prime" water conditioner to dechlorinate your water. (prime is ideal because if and when you add fish it converts the ammo to a less toxic form in case of a spike in ammo).

Don't bother with store bought nitrifying bacteria products. They are a waste and can cause a mini cycle in your tank when you stop using them.

Cycling a tank can be very frustrating. We feel your pain there. Hang in there and we will get you through this! In the future... Water changes are easier with a product called "Python". Connects to your sink faucet and increases siphon strength also. Check it out on google. Ask away... We are here to help. As far as the girlfriend... She is either involved or not. If you are "stuck" with cycling the tank then I'll guarantee you will be stuck with the fish. I recommend ironing out financial and time responsibilities as soon as possible so that this fish tank doesn't cause more grief than good in your relationship... Just an insight...

 

[Madamayo]

A PPM/TDS tester tells you exactly how much dissolved solids and other pollutants there are in water.

Say my PPM is 192. I add ammonia till PPM is 196. Viola, 4PPM dosage. Now that I think about it though, I would have no way to tell how much of that PPM is ammonia after reacting with the bacteria...

Gahhh and I thought hydroponics was a pain to get started....

 

[boadams87]

Amazon has the best deal on the API freshwater test kit. Cycling a tank fishless will take anywhere from 4-6 weeks, so if you really don't have the time to invest in this hobby, maybe you should just empty the tank and store it. The people on this site look at fish like most look at their dogs, so its not just a plain ole fish to us!!!

 

[fort384]

Looks like you are on the right track madamayo, and there is some good advice in this thread. The good news is starting the tank is the hardest part. It gets easier once your cycle takes hold.

All, let's just make sure we keep the discussion civil, and leave personal attacks by the way side - it looks like everyone involved wants to do the best they can for the fish.

I would not recommend trying to read ammonia using a TDS test. As you said, there are reactions that occur, and it just wouldn't be an accurate way of measuring ammonia. While I would recommend you get an ammonia test kit as soon as you can afford one, you can cycle a tank without it. You could leave the dead fish in the tank for 2-3 weeks, or put a couple of shrimp from your local grocery store into the tank. The breakdown will produce ammonia, which will spawn good bacteria growth. Either way, I would recommend putting them into a pair of panty hose before you put it in the tank, so that as they break down they don't make a mess of the tank. After 3 weeks or so, and after you can afford the test (or you could take a sample of water to your LFS and they will test it for free), you would probably be pretty close to cycled.

 

[Madamayo]

Looks like you are on the right track madamayo, and there is some good advice in this thread. The good news is starting the tank is the hardest part. It gets easier once your cycle takes hold.

All, let's just make sure we keep the discussion civil, and leave personal attacks by the way side - it looks like everyone involved wants to do the best they can for the fish.

I would not recommend trying to read ammonia using a TDS test. As you said, there are reactions that occur, and it just wouldn't be an accurate way of measuring ammonia. While I would recommend you get an ammonia test kit as soon as you can afford one, you can cycle a tank without it. You could leave the dead fish in the tank for 2-3 weeks, or put a couple of shrimp from your local grocery store into the tank. The breakdown will produce ammonia, which will spawn good bacteria growth. Either way, I would recommend putting them into a pair of panty hose before you put it in the tank, so that as they break down they don't make a mess of the tank. After 3 weeks or so, and after you can afford the test (or you could take a sample of water to your LFS and they will test it for free), you would probably be pretty close to cycled.

Excellent response. Thank you very much for the tips (and support.)

Good idea with the panty hose, but they're already flushed. I'll just use some fish flakes and invest in some ammonia and a test kit once I get paid.

 

[paytertot]

I agree just throw some shrimp and/or fish food in there to provide ammo. Just make sure there's always ammo or the bacteria will die. I also disagree with using any kind of bottled bacteria or cycle booster because they have always seemed to do more damage than good in the long run. And like I said, I would keep the temp high and put some aeration in there.

 

[fort384]

I agree just throw some shrimp and/or fish food in there to provide ammo. Just make sure there's always ammo or the bacteria will die. I also disagree with using any kind of bottled bacteria or cycle booster because they have always seemed to do more damage than good in the long run. And like I said, I would keep the temp high and put some aeration in there.

Good advice. The bacteria in a bottle stuff is gimmicky. There are some products that may help, but it is a crap shoot. For every person that says product X helped my cycle, there is one that says it did nothing for them. Especially if on a budget, fish flakes will work fine. I prefer a shrimp, as it will make less of a mess, and produce less phosphates, which could lead to algae down the road.

Keep your lights off on the tank while you do this too - it will help prevent unwanted algae growth during your cycle.

 

[Madamayo]

Turns out there is still one little fish left in here! Gave it a water change, but I'm not thinking this one is likely to survive. I would euthanize it, but I wan't to try to make the conditions livable. If it is ONE small fish I feel like a sufficient water change, throwing away that biozyme, and an emergency purchase on the credit card (OUCH) for a test kit will possibly save this fish.

From my understand large water change will help keep the toxin levels down while the bacteria builds up. Now, since this tank has had fish in it for a week (unsuccessfully) wouldn't that mean the bio filter has possibly STARTED to build up?

I accept that the fish may die, but at the same time it might be able to survive. I can get the tank stabilized with one fish, it would then be safe to begin adding more of the same type gradually, correct?

 

[paytertot]

If you want to try to keep this fish alive, 50% water changes daily would be a good idea. Also the test would be great but I'm not going to tell you to do something financially if you don't think you can. It's important to keep feeding ammo so the bacteria live, but not so much that the fish doesn't.