Fishless Cycle Log/Rebuild - Take II

[eco23]

First, good job helping the fish and you won't know how you survived this long without the water changer

I look at water quality reports every day as part of my actual job that pays me real money, if you guys knew what was actually in your water (I'm talking about things your municipality isn't required to include in their pretty little annual reports)...none of you would drink it.

Unless you feel like opening up your wallets or taking out a new line of credit...take my word for it and believe that ignorance is bliss when it comes to your drinking water.

 

[eco23]

I'm not saying your water is toxic and you're going to die if you drink it or that fish can't survive in it...I'm just trying to eliminate possibilities as we go.

 

[librarygirl]

Um, Ok I just checked ammonia and it's at least 8 PPM but it's the same amount of drops (6) I've been adding to get it to 3 from about 1-2, so I figure I even under-dosed. I'm guessing it's the overdose of Prime showing up in the API reading. Should I leave it or do a water change to get it down since it shouldn't be the pure ammonia causing the reading? I don't want to kill off anything I may have in there.

 

[librarygirl]

The fish water doesn't go into the faucet, it gets pushed down (by fresh tap water) through the bottom part of the plastic mechanism.

Thanks, that's what I thought, just needed to hear it from someone else I let hot water run through the faucet anyway after I took the changer off and before putting my PUR filtration back on.

 

[eco23]

Um, Ok I just checked ammonia and it's at least 8 PPM but it's the same amount of drops (6) I've been adding to get it to 3 from about 1-2, so I figure I even under-dosed. I'm guessing it's the overdose of Prime showing up in the API reading. Should I leave it or do a water change to get it down since it shouldn't be the pure ammonia causing the reading? I don't want to kill off anything I may have in there.

Someone else might need to chime in. My understanding was that once the ammonia is detoxified, it will still test positive for the amount that is in there...but I'm not familiar with it causing an elevated reading. I'm sure there's a simple explanation, I just don't know it. I have a feeling someone else does...

 

[librarygirl]

Someone else might need to chime in. My understanding was that once the ammonia is detoxified, it will still test positive for the amount that is in there...but I'm not familiar with it causing an elevated reading. I'm sure there's a simple explanation, I just don't know it. I have a feeling someone else does...

Hm, thanks Eco. I think I'm going to err on the side of caution and take some of the water out to get the ammo level down and when I refill be more conservative on the Prime, I don't want to chance killing anything that might be in there.

 

[eco23]

Hm, thanks Eco. I think I'm going to err on the side of caution and take some of the water out to get the ammo level down and when I refill be more conservative on the Prime, I don't want to chance killing anything that might be in there.

I don't think you've got to worry about that...hang tight, I'm doing an experiment.

 

[eco23]

Alright, I took 2 identical cups of tap water, dosed them to ~2ppm with ammo, tested them individually only adding Prime to one sample at an extremely high dose...both tested identical at 2ppm.

Someone's welcome to chime in, but I'd just do a 50% pwc to bring your ammo down from 8 to 4ppm and let it sit. I'd think it was either an accidental overdose of ammo, or the chloramines level fluctuates in the tap water...especially during the summer. It might be worth testing.

Don't worry about the Prime hurting anything, on it's own bottle it says up to 5x the normal dosage can safely be used.

 

[jetajockey]

You are right, Prime doesn't change the ammonia reading on the API test. The 'False-positive' thing that people throw around is because it reads all ammonia and doesn't differentiate between ammonium (bound ammonia) and free ammonia.

 

[librarygirl]

Alright, I took 2 identical cups of tap water, dosed them to ~2ppm with ammo, tested them individually only adding Prime to one sample at an extremely high dose...both tested identical at 2ppm.

Someone's welcome to chime in, but I'd just do a 50% pwc to bring your ammo down from 8 to 4ppm and let it sit. I'd think it was either an accidental overdose of ammo, or the chloramines level fluctuates in the tap water...especially during the summer. It might be worth testing.

Don't worry about the Prime hurting anything, on it's own bottle it says up to 5x the normal dosage can safely be used.

Thanks for the experiment Eco! I did change half the water again and put in a smaller dose of Prime. I didn't add any more ammonia. I haven't retested yet, will do so soon. I hope I don't have to change water again I just don't understand how the reading could be that high with the same ammount of ammonia I've been adding. I counted the drops carefully, the only thing I did differently was add a lot more Prime. But maybe the larger water change did something as there may be something in the water, as you said.

If it's less than 4 ppm of ammo I'll let it ride and see if anything happens in the next few days. If not I'm leaning toward trying another sponge. Or using the tank to shoot fireworks. Haven't decided yet

 

[librarygirl]

Well it's not 8+ but it's around 4-5 PPM. I'm going to leave it. It can't be the pure ammonia b/c I only added 6 drops after the first water change (I tested it before I added the drops and it was only at 0.25). I then did a second water change to get the level down from 8+ and now it's at 4-5, and I didn't add any more ammonia, just Prime. So something is off but I don't think it's super high so I'll leave it for now and see what happens, if anything, over the next few days. My tank is a mystery wrapped in a riddle lol

 

[eco23]

Well it's not 8+ but it's around 4-5 PPM. I'm going to leave it. It can't be the pure ammonia b/c I only added 6 drops after the first water change (I tested it before I added the drops and it was only at 0.25). I then did a second water change to get the level down from 8+ and now it's at 4-5, and I didn't add any more ammonia, just Prime. So something is off but I don't think it's super high so I'll leave it for now and see what happens, if anything, over the next few days. My tank is a mystery wrapped in a riddle lol

...stuffed inside an enigma, lol.

Just let it sit now, try to forget about it for a few days and enjoy your holiday weekend

 

[librarygirl]

I think I solved the mystery of the high ammonia. I realized that I usually rinse out the baster I use to dose the ammonia before using it to draw water for the API test so that any ammonia residue doesn't skew the test results. I didn't rinse it before I did the last test So I rinsed it and then tested and ammonia was now at 0.25. So I'm re-dosing again to about 3.

Duh.

 

[librarygirl]

I know I should leave the tank be....not obsess over it, but I can't help it lol

So for the heck of it I tested this morning. Now, when I tested last night, the ammonia was 3-4 PPM, a definite green color.

I just tested now, and it's 0.5. But the nitrite tube is bright blue still. Did I somehow skew the test results last night? Can this be even possible?

What the heck is going on?! AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH lol

 

[eco23]

I know I should leave the tank be....not obsess over it, but I can't help it lol

So for the heck of it I tested this morning. Now, when I tested last night, the ammonia was 3-4 PPM, a definite green color.

I just tested now, and it's 0.5. But the nitrite tube is bright blue still. Did I somehow skew the test results last night? Can this be even possible?

What the heck is going on?! AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH lol

Good morning and happy 4th of July . Assuming it wasn't a testing error and it did in fact drop that much...it was converted, no question about it. Remember that a lag time of several days of ammo dropping and no2 is to be expected. Maybe your nitrItes are just camera shy because they know you're going to dedicate and entire photo album to them once they come out . Remember to check your no3 occasionally too.

 

[zparticle]

Is there any chance something is wrong with the testing kit? Can you take a sample of the water and have it tested at the lfs?

 

[librarygirl]

I don't know how you stay so positive Eco lol I'm not ready to hope it converted that much. I'll leave it until tonight and test again, if it's lower or still that low I'll redose again b/c it'll be the 24 hour mark, then test it again tomorrow night to see if there is indeed a drop pattern. When I saw the drop I did check NO3 this morning too and the tube is still yellow. I think it's a conspiracy to drive me insane lol And Happy 4th to you too!

Thanks Zparticle, but I actually have two API kits and I've used both to test and got the same result. I just think the bacteria hate me lol

 

[eco23]

I don't know how you stay so positive Eco lol I'm not ready to hope it converted that much. I'll leave it until tonight and test again, if it's lower or still that low I'll redose again b/c it'll be the 24 hour mark, then test it again tomorrow night to see if there is indeed a drop pattern. When I saw the drop I did check NO3 this morning too and the tube is still yellow. I think it's a conspiracy to drive me insane lol And Happy 4th to you too!

Thanks Zparticle, but I actually have two API kits and I've used both to test and got the same result. I just think the bacteria hate me lol

Tbh, I'm only positive cause that thing is in your living room and not mine, lol. If it were my house...that tank would have a turtle or something in it by now, haha.

People are welcome to argue for / against...but my suggestion is that if we don't see significant, steady movement towards our goal...I'd start picking up some big jugs of spring water while you're out and about. Some 5 gallon jugs shouldn't be expensive (doesn't need to be a quality brand, just not RO water), and start using that during water changes until you're at 100% bottled in the tank. It's not ideal, and I can't promise it will work, but it's one of the last variables we have yet to experiment with. I've been following with you since day 1, and I'm familiar with all the different tweaks you've made during the 3 cycle attempts...and it's the next path I'd lead you down personally. It might be a few more $'s than your tap water...but it's cheaper than the mental institution this fish tank is going to put you in if we don't get your tank cycled.

 

[librarygirl]

Tbh, I'm only positive cause that thing is in your living room and not mine, lol. If it were my house...that tank would have a turtle or something in it by now, haha.

People are welcome to argue for / against...but my suggestion is that if we don't see significant, steady movement towards our goal...I'd start picking up some big jugs of spring water while you're out and about. Some 5 gallon jugs shouldn't be expensive (doesn't need to be a quality brand, just not RO water), and start using that during water changes until you're at 100% bottled in the tank. It's not ideal, and I can't promise it will work, but it's one of the last variables we have yet to experiment with. I've been following with you since day 1, and I'm familiar with all the different tweaks you've made during the 3 cycle attempts...and it's the next path I'd lead you down personally. It might be a few more $'s than your tap water...but it's cheaper than the mental institution this fish tank is going to put you in if we don't get your tank cycled.

Sounds like a plan I guess. I really hope something happens this week b/c I'm at the end of my rope. Do you think my water is too soft (GH 3, KH 2) for the bacteria to get established? I wonder too if whatever chemicals they use in it are just killing off the bacteria and/or making it harder for them to colonize. But there are other tanks in my area, so that's what I don't understand.

Ok enough for today, I need to get the tank out of my head for a while lol

 

[eco23]

Sounds like a plan I guess. I really hope something happens this week b/c I'm at the end of my rope. Do you think my water is too soft (GH 3, KH 2) for the bacteria to get established? I wonder too if whatever chemicals they use in it are just killing off the bacteria and/or making it harder for them to colonize. But there are other tanks in my area, so that's what I don't understand.

Ok enough for today, I need to get the tank out of my head for a while lol

The softness won't have any impact unless it is causing wild pH swings (which it's not).

To be totally honest, I'm not sure what the issue with the water could be (even though that's my profession), it's simply the next thing id personally try in my own house if anything else odd keeps happening.