Fishless Cycle Questions

[fish wrangler]

Hey everybody sorry for all of my questions lately, but I don't want to do more harm than good.

I have read this article The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling - Aquarium Advice but still questions.

#1. If I can't get any planted material that has BB would adding pure ammonia start the cycle, and just take longer to fully cycle than if I had planted material?

#2. How much ammonia should I add to get 4ppm in a 29 gallon tank? Would I have to test after adding a little bit?

#3. Is adding to much ammonia a bad thing? My live plants are going in either tonight or tomorrow night of that affects anything.

#4. Is the API Master Test Kit the best option for people new to testing?

Thanks again everyone.

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[trennamw]

Hey everybody sorry for all of my questions lately, but I don't want to do more harm than good.

I have read this article The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling - Aquarium Advice but still questions.

#1. If I can't get any planted material that has BB would adding pure ammonia start the cycle, and just take longer to fully cycle than if I had planted material?

#2. How much ammonia should I add to get 4ppm in a 29 gallon tank? Would I have to test after adding a little bit?

#3. Is adding to much ammonia a bad thing? My live plants are going in either tonight or tomorrow night of that affects anything.

#4. Is the API Master Test Kit the best option for people new to testing?

Thanks again everyone.

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Lots of questions is a good thing ...

I was glancing at your other thread a few minutes ago. Do I understand correctly that you've just emptied a tank, and you're presuming your BB will die before you re stock, because you're going out of town? And you don't have a source for seeded media?

If your BB are still alive, giving them ammonia to "eat" while you're away might keep them alive.

If you want 4ppm in a 29, and you get ACE Janitorial Ammonia ... Which I think is 9% ammonia ... I want to say it's about 3ml.

Whether you want 4ppm is another conversation. Some believe that's too much. My own opinion is it's a good amount since you're leaving and won't be re dosing.

I'd read once to put filter media in the refrigerator. I did this one time, in a container with tank water, and it seemed to work, but I'm not sure. The theory is, it goes dormant. Maybe whatever you try, stick a handful of something in the fridge as backup.

There is such thing as too much ammonia. Theories vary on how much is too much. Hopefully some more experienced people stop by with opinions on that.

The API Kit is typically regarded as the way to go. And people here are used to it, and can advise on its quirks when you need help reading it. I use it for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

I follow my LFS recommendation to not use the API pH test, but to use a wide range test instead (one for hydroponics that goes from 3-10 in large increments) because it's specific enough and leads to less freaking out. I also keep a GH and KH kit because I've got soft water.

You should find out your GH and KH at least once. If you have soft or hard water, and since you want to keep plants, you might want to buy those.


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[fish wrangler]

Thank you. I got back in town today, and i added 1 algae pellet for a little more ammonia.

Tomorrow I will pick up the test kit, and the ammonia. I will add 1 tsp to feed my BB, Wednesday night i will test. If i still have the ammonia I'll re-cycle, and if there are no ammonia or nitrites I will dose more ammonia (3-4ppm).

If the second dose disappears I don't have to re-cycle tank, and can add fish right away correct?

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[trennamw]

1 tsp is 5ml. Maybe try a half.

If a half tsp disappears in 24 hours and all you have left is nitrate you still have bb.

Depending on how many times you dose and how much nitrate you build up, you might need a water change before adding fish.

I don't know how strongly plants impact a cycle. Others will have to advise there.


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[fish wrangler]

Ok, if the nitrates get above 15 ppm I will do a wc, if not no wc.

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[Ruffers99]

#2. How much ammonia should I add to get 4ppm in a 29 gallon tank? Would I have to test after adding a little bit?

I found this dosage calc and I used it do measure how much ammonia i needed to add.

 

[fish wrangler]

Ok, 3.41 ml of ammonia for 3ppm. Thanks Ruffers

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[Ruffers99]

Ok, 3.41 ml of ammonia for 3ppm. Thanks Ruffers

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Yeah no worries, my calculated dosage seem to bring the level up to where I expected it to be when i tested (from my experience anyways).

Just to be absolutely correct the ACE ammonia I got was 10% ammonia hydroxide

Ignore the 15 pack, they have individual bottles in the store.
Ace® Ammonia - 15 Pack - Industrial Cleaners - Ace Hardware

good luck.

 

[fish wrangler]

Thats the one I'm getting I was hoping they had a single item. I do not need 15 quarts of ammonia...I'm not cycling a 20,000 gallon pond. Lol

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[trennamw]

The convenient thing about ACE ammonia and 29 gallon tanks is you dose about 1 ml for every ppm you need.

You seem really thirsty for knowledge and like the type who wants to keep exploring ideas. While you're watching bacteria grow, You might also enjoy ...

The planted tank thread here.

The Barr Report website

Diana Walstad's ecology of the planted aquarium book (available as an ebook)

(Walstad and Barr disagree on some things, and there's a lot of fascinating stuff in those disagreements).

Google "low tech planted tank" and "high tech planted tank" if you haven't already.


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[dalto]

#1. If I can't get any planted material that has BB would adding pure ammonia start the cycle, and just take longer to fully cycle than if I had planted material?

While I suppose plants could hold BB the amount would be pretty small. I would try to get seeded filter material if you want to kick start the cycle.

#3. Is adding to much ammonia a bad thing? My live plants are going in either tonight or tomorrow night of that affects anything.

Yes, adding too much ammonia is a bad thing. When ammonia levels get too high your cycle will stall. I always recommend dosing to 2ppm instead of 4ppm. There is no practical benefit to the additional 2ppm but there are several benefits to staying at 2ppm.
1 - The risk of overdosing is lower since you have a lot more room for error. It doesn't take much to get from 4ppm to too much.
2 - Continually dosing to 4ppm for the length of the cycle will erode more of your KH and may cause a pH crash depending on the length of the cycle and where your KH starts.
3 - By dosing all the extra ammonia you will often end up with an enormous nitrite spike which can also stall your cycle.

#4. Is the API Master Test Kit the best option for people new to testing?

I don't know if it is best option but it is a good option and one that many people are familiar with if you need help or advice.

 

[fish wrangler]

The convenient thing about ACE ammonia and 29 gallon tanks is you dose about 1 ml for every ppm you need.

You seem really thirsty for knowledge and like the type who wants to keep exploring ideas. While you're watching bacteria grow, You might also enjoy ...

After what happened to my last fish I want to do my future fish right. Spend more money, but have a better tank, and healthier fish.

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[Fishanatic]

I think most of your questions have been answered here. Just remember that a fishless cycle can be a bit long and patience is key(so is testing the water )

 

[fish wrangler]

While I suppose plants could hold BB the amount would be pretty small. I would try to get seeded filter material if you want to kick start the cycle.

Thats what I meant, seeded material, couldn't think of the word. I have the same filter pad, and 6 filter bags of my old gravel. If the BB survived not having ammonia for 6 days, they should still be in tank.

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[dalto]

Thats what I meant, seeded material, couldn't think of the word. I have the same filter pad, and 6 filter bags of my old gravel. If the BB survived not having ammonia for 6 days, they should still be in tank.

It should have survived unless something happened in the middle to destroy it such as it drying out or coming into contact with something that would kill it.

 

[fish wrangler]

It never dried out, I kept the filter submerged when the tank was dried, and the gravel never fully dried out but didn't get fully dried.

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[trennamw]

Sounds like it should go well!


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[fish wrangler]

If I can't get any nitrites in a week, but i still have the same amount of ammonia from the night before should I get bottle bacteria? If so which brand?

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[fish wrangler]

Just a general pH question. Is this 7.4?? Because it is on the high end of the normal ph test i also did a high range pH test. I just did the ammonia test and am waiting for the results.

Results from the ammonia test- 4ppm which is what I added last night. I did a a nitrite test and that came back as 0

The first picture is of the pH test, the second of last nights ammonia test after i added more, and the last on is of todays ammonia test.

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[Fresh2o]

The pH looks 8.2
The ammonia in pic #2 looks +4 ppm and 4 ppm in pic #3
I would give it at least another day to start seeing nitrites (assuming enough BB survived in the media). Note: you might not even catch the nitrite reading because sometimes it spikes and falls within several hours (outside of the time you might test for it).


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