Getting a little bit discouraged

[Millerman]

So I'm a little bit frustrated with fish keeping right now my fish keep dying. I had my tank cycled plenty long like 3 months then I added some plants and it sat fishless for about 4-5 days would that be long enough to kill my bacteria?

I'm struggling and keep losing fish. I woke up to find my rainbow shark dried up on the floor and then when I got home one of my swordtails is dead.? So far I've lost three swordtails and my shark. I've been Changing water around twice a week ten gallons total because it's understocked right now. I had great success with my 10 gallon.

 

[Millerman]

Some factors that may make a difference. I'm using water that hasn't gone through the water softener for this tank. I used 1 and 1/2 of excel yesterday I've been only using 1 but It is a 55 and that's less than recommended still ( correct me if I'm wrong) one of the other sword tails isn't looking to good.

 

[irdajoh]

Do you test your water, nitrates nitrites and ammoina? Ammoina higher then .25 is toxic, nitrites at any level is toxic, and nitrates over 40 can harm fish. It sounds like you haven't cycled fully really. Best thing to do is to buy hardy fish like tetra to help cycle the tank. Also what size is the tank

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[F.Sam]

How are tetra's hardy fish? They are very delicate and should never be used to cycle.


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[irdajoh]

I've heard otherwise, name some hardy fish then so we dont have more deaths for our friend here.

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[44Paps44]

OP, please provide some more info before the fish debate begins.

Water parameters?
Testing material?

Timeline is confusing, please clarify.

Tank was cycled then sat for 4-5 days, then added plants and fish?

How long have there been fish in the tank?
Fish are struggling? What exactly is the behavior?
Did other fish show same behavior?

 

[F.Sam]

Zebra danios for example, minnows etc. My aquashop and me find them too sensitive as first fish. They need to go in a well-established tank.


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[crazy4fids]

Hello Miller,
Sorry to hear about your sick fish.
If I remember correctly, this is a fairly new 150 setup?
First thing I would do would be to purchase a good test kit. If the water registers any ammonia or nitrites, do not add anymore fish. If the nitrates are over 40, do a 50% water change and wait a couple days, then test it again. You should gradually see the ammonia go to zero, as well as the nitrites. You never want the nitrates to be over 40.
Some good starter fish are white cloud mountain minnows, any kind of danios (if you don't like the plain zebras, get long finned) both of these fish look nice in a school and are relatively cheap (usually under $1.50. In a 150 gallon you should easily be able to start with 3-7 of these. After these fish have survived in your tank for about a month and you can maintain 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites, then you can slowly add different fish. Taking your time cycling it in is so important.


If you are purchasing the cheap fish from PetsMart, make sure you have a 10 gallon quarantine tank set up. It will be much easier and cheaper to treat your fish in a 10 gallon quarantine tank than in your 150. I have purchased fish from Petsmart and ALWAYS quarantine them. They typically come down with ich in a 48 hour period. Some people will dose new fish with antibiotics just to be safe before adding them to a large show tank.
Good luck!!!

 

[The Fish Man]

Remember if there brackish sometimes they say at the store they're freshwater some maybe there brackish or you should see if your water is clean.


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[Millerman]

It is a 55 i cycled it for around three months with a goldfish then I added plants and removed the goldfish so it didn't eat anything. I then did a large water change and then added the fish. It seems I may have overdosed excel accidentally It only is killing swordtails and had no effect on my shark or black phantom tetra. The shark jumped out of a filter cut out in the glass canopy and missed a bucket of water by about two inches.

 

[Millerman]

Im adding some immune system boost and stress relief water conditioner.

 

[Millerman]

And I have the api test sticks but they don't say ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are both at zero. I've been doing daily or at least every other day water changes.

 

[Millerman]

I know this is a lot of info but another thing is that only the new swordtails die and this one red swordtail hasn't. It is like a repeat the female gets lethargic and dies then about a day later the male dies. The alive swordtail is hiding a lot but I'm pretty sure it pregnant and about to give berth

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Do you test your water, nitrates nitrites and ammoina? Ammoina higher then .25 is toxic, nitrites at any level is toxic, and nitrates over 40 can harm fish. It sounds like you haven't cycled fully really. Best thing to do is to buy hardy fish like tetra to help cycle the tank. Also what size is the tank

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Ammonia and nitrite toxicity depend upon pH, nitrate toxicity is different per species, there is no set figure.

Well done owner of a three eyed raven!
Tetra I wouldn't consider starter fish.

Test sticks are not so good! Use titration, far better.
Either the swordtails are ill or the water chemistry is vastly different from the shop.

What is your pH/Kh GH?
What is it in the shop?

If they are similar, then it could be fish health.

Typically larger volumes are more stable.

4-5 days with no ammonia source could be a problem.

 

[Millerman]

Ph-is 7.5
gh and kh are around 180
I have no clue what petcos water is

 

[enrgizerbunny]

4-5 days with no ammonia source could be a problem.

Nah, bacteria colonies take about as long to die off add they do to get established if you keep them wet with a stable temperature. A week should be no issue. Maybe a mini cycle, but if you cycle with a small fish you risk a mini cycle adding several fish at once anyway.


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[Millerman]

I'm pretty understocked right now with 6 black phantom tetra, 1 juvenile rainbow shark and 1 swordtail

 

[trennamw]

One goldfish in a 55 doesn't sound like the tank ever cycled. That's not enough of an ammonia source to develop a bacteria colony.

Could be ammonia (which burns) or nitrite (which acts on fish like carbon monoxide does on humans) got high, the shark may have jumped out due to discomfort.

Tetras are a good beginner fish but not a good fish for cycling. Being hardy and being tolerant of an Uncycled tank are two different things.


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[Millerman]

I also seeded the tank with water and media from my 10 gallon I don't know if it would mater. I was hopping it was fully cycled as it was in there for 3 months. I didn't do to many water changes as it was only a small goldfish in a 55

 

[trennamw]

The problem would be, the bacteria need to eat ammonia, and the bacteria population will only grow until they run out of food. One goldfish in a 55 is probably almost no ammonia.

The filter media was a good idea but the bacteria probably died off going 3 months without food. Water doesn't help, as the bacteria live only on surfaces.

You made a good choice coming here. Many of us have been through the same thing.

It's generally accepted that a "cycled" tank hosts enough bacteria to process 2ppm fully to nitrate in 24 hours. You usually do this with either bottled ammonia, letting the tank get very toxic in the process ... or with fish, in which case you change enough water to keep the fish healthy but not so much you starve the bacteria.

The rule I read was 1 small cycle-appropriate (if there is such thing) fish for every 10 gallons for fish in cycling. You don't feed them much, you check water with a good test kit constantly ... Etc.

If you have surviving fish, do a bunch of water changes, get a test kit (API master test kit) and read up on fish in cycling. I don't know a lot about it, just that there are few appropriate fish, you need several in a 55, you have to do thorough testing, and you feed lightly.

Stop putting things in the water to help. In many cases it just adds to total dissolved solids and therefore possibly to osmotic stress. Even the bottles bacteria supplements are rarely helpful. Of they surprise you by dying suddenly it sounds more like water issues than microbes.

Sorry you got off to a difficult start. Definitely get GH test kit, check your GH and KH, and thoroughly educate yourself on cycling and on using softened or very hard water.

You allude to hard water. Knowing your GH and KH would help.


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