Help Please!! Fish are sick

[Robin_42]

I will re post my original post to bring everyone up to speed...
" Hi everyone, I really need some advice. I will try to make a long story short. Due to a power outage I lost too much of my beneficial bacteria and had the nitrogen cycle start over in a long established tank.. I took notice when my smaller fish stopped swimming around and sat still on the bottom.I immediately tested the water and got a reading of .50 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates. I done a large water change to help with the ammonia. I continued smaller water water changes daily and used prime. The ammonia levels never went above .25ppm again. After about 6 weeks it cycled again. My fish did not seem stressed.Anyway I have had a 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and low nitrate reading. Everything looks good now for the last 5 days. BUT when I got up this morning one of my fish was on the bottom of the tank and he is laying with a "bowed" body. I thought he was dead several times today, but he is still breathing. Not eating, nothing other than a wiggle here or there.. same "bowed" position all day on the bottom of the tank. Is there anything I can do for this? Is it the effects of the nitrogen cycle? I hate to see him this way. I have had him for many years and it kills me to do nothing Advice please!!!!"

Now my larger fan tail has what looks like blood streaming through his tail?? Can anyone help me get to the bottom of what is going on in my tank?? My other fish is still in a "bowed" position and not really moving, but still breathing.

I just tested the water again and everything shows good.

Ammonia - 0

Nitrite - 0

Nitrate - 5 ppm

pH- 7.6 ( that is as high as the test kit measures) but it matched the 7.6 color exactly

High range pH - 7.8

Are the pH numbers ok for goldfish?

 

[Matt68005]

Yes seems okay. .50 amonia for a goldfish is nothing.......
not sure but it sounds like maybe a swim bladder problem?
What kind is he and how long? the bigger they are the tougher they are.
I had a black moor get into a fight with a koi and he was in bad shape cadual totally shreaded. All i did was keep him in methylene blue water and feed him antibiotic food (oxytetracycline) and he recovered completely. Its grown back and today i mated him!
As for advice i would google swim bladder disorder in Goldfish and go from there buddy.
Let me know how it goes, probably needs an antibiotic, theres several i can reccomend but lets see what alls going on first.
Tanks size and fish and filter setup ect ect.
i don't really care about water paramaters,
More info about the goldy and when it started
most likely a swim bladder issue.

 

[Robin_42]

Thanks for your response. I have a 55 gallon tank. I only have the two goldfish. a common and a fancy. I will be honest, I have no idea what my filters are called .. there are two filters and each one holds two cartridges. The common goldfish is rather small, not too big at all. Maybe three inches tops. It started yesterday. When I go up I noticed he was laying sideways on the bottom of the tank. Like I said he is also curved. I have dealt with swim bladder issue before, but have never seen this curvature. I tried to hand feed him a pea today and he doesn't seem interested in eating. My fantail has some blood streaking in it's tail now too. He was swimming around rather fast a few times. He seems to want to stay with the other fish. Could that be stress? I can take a pic of it if it would help. Thanks for any information I really don't want to lose my fish.
I have an extra 10 gallon tank. If I use any meds should I quarantine him in there? I have the tank and extra air stones, but I have no filter for that tank...any advice is appreciated as I have not dealt with this to this degree before.

 

[pip walters]

Take 3 litres of tank water, add and dissolve 30g of salt.... cooking salt is fine if you have no aquarium salt...... put the bent over fish in this for 15 to 20 minutes. If he startrts to look normal and regains his equilibrium before this time, then replace him in the tank. I can't promise this will work as he is in a poor state, but the salt should help him regain his osmorgulatory balance.

Red streaks in the fins are a sign of stress and can damage the blood vessels, causing deterioration of the fin and possible bacterial problems. Adding salt to the tank at a rate of 3g per litre (for goldfish) will help alleviate stress whilst you try to determine the cause.

Water quality issues are usually the first cause stress. Are you confident your test kits are accurate? How old are the kits? If they have been subjected to extremes of temperature, the chemicals may be affected.
Perhaps get you local lfs to test the water too for a second opinion.

What are you feeding? Dry food that becomes damp can harbour aflotoxins.

Your care regime seems fine, so it is hard to say what is happening here. Have you added anything new to the tank recently?

 

[Robin_42]

Wow salt? Would Epsom salt be better? Or would it be better if I can get an antibiotics today? I have never used salt before. The test kit isn't that old. I used it in the cycling process and it showed all the changes. It should be fine. I feed them flake food but always soak first. This may be a very stupid question..but will the salt make him worse if it doesn't help? Its a little scary for me as I have never used it this way.

 

[Robin_42]

updated

Ok I tried a salt bath in epsom salt for 15 minutes and there was no type of change.

My larger fantail is now trying to hide and is acting stressed. I have no idea what is going on.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Pip knows his stuff.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Is the ammo test correct?

I'm sure I've had many discussions about prime and ammonia readings, normally being high.

It is an ammonia binding water treatment.

Perhaps look at the test kit/method/date.

(It's just a suggestion, last week I was elated at seeing 0 nitrate, turns out I added solution one twice)

 

[Robin_42]

I have a brand new API ammonia test kit, just opened and re tested. ) ammonia = 0.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Thanks for the thanks it means a lot to me.

Hmm, that is strange.
(Reads more like, oh lord I'm stupid, it must only be me then!)

Just an idea, and any idea is useful to a point.

Pip is a clever bloke. He works with fish everyday.

I hate seeing fish this way with no clue or solution. It's heartbreaking. I will be thinking about this and hope I can be of some use to you.

Given the filter off situation it is most likely to do with that. (I suffered power cuts before now, it isn't pleasant)

Something I stumbled into after the rainfall, my tap water changed considerably. Not sure where you live but this could hold some answers if it's rained a lot and your area draws ground water into the supply line.

I haven't kept goldfish but some stuff is the same. JLK is another goldfish hero search him out on this website.

It could be an introduced disease or similar, were there any new additions recently 0-3 months?

 

[Robin_42]

Thanks for your help I have city water and have tested it straight from the faucet before using the dechlorinator. It is reading like it always has. I am at a loss. I hate seeing my fish this way. Today is day 3 I was hoping the salt bath would improve him. I hate this. I know the fan tail if having swim bladder issues too... the vertical position. I am going to fast him a few days and see if that helps him. I don't know what else I can do at this point. I wish I had more knowledge of these things

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Try starving for 24-48 hrs.
If it goes away change your food to a sinking type pellet or similar sinking food.


(How/what do they eat? And from where in the tank top/bottom?)

 

[Robin_42]

Yes, that's what I thought I would do , then maybe try some peas. They eat flake food, but I pre soak it. I tried feeding them the pellets before and they wouldn't eat them. They eat from the bottom.

 

[Matt68005]

You are better off with table salt, crazy as that sounds
Table salt- Seasalt Sodium cloride
Epsom salt- Sodium magnesium
You may need an antibiotic if that dosent work.
Really depends on how valuble the fish is.
Swim bladder problems with goldfish are common.

 

[Robin_42]

Thanks Matt for your reply. I set up a hospital tank (10 gallon) and added 2 tsp of Epsom salt ( I did not know you could use table salt) and I added Tetracycline to the tank. I'm sure he wouldn't be valuable to any one but me I hate to feel as though I didn't do what I could. I have had him for about 4 years.

 

[Robin_42]

Another Question

Do either of you know how long it takes the antibiotics to help (if they are going to?) and if the salt bath didn't change anything should I continue to do them? I got him to eat a few bites of a pea today and he had a bit of a bm. He is still however "bowed" and on his side. Thanks for all the advice and help you both have offered. I truly appreciate it, as I feel like " a fish out of water" at the moment.

 

[Robin_42]

Do you know how long it takes the antibiotics to help (if they are going to?) and if the salt bath didn't change anything should I continue to do them? I got him to eat a few bites of a pea today and he had a bit of a bm. He is still however "bowed" and on his side. Thanks for all the advice and help you have offered. I truly appreciate it, as I feel like " a fish out of water" at the moment.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

You are better off with table salt, crazy as that sounds
Table salt- Seasalt Sodium cloride
Epsom salt- Sodium magnesium
You may need an antibiotic if that dosent work.
Really depends on how valuble the fish is.
Swim bladder problems with goldfish are common.

For the benefit of robin;
(Chloride is used by fish in the gills to control osmoregulation)

Really pip has the answers, he deals with goldfish. Or jlk. Or Matt.
I'm not a goldfish man.

All I can say is, at least at this moment the fish is alive and that, at least you have some time to fix this issue.

All antibiotics/anti bacterials work at different rates depending on ailment and severity of infection/infestation. Sometimes repeats are necessary.

 

[Robin_42]

You are better off with table salt, crazy as that sounds
Table salt- Seasalt Sodium cloride
Epsom salt- Sodium magnesium
You may need an antibiotic if that dosent work.
Really depends on how valuble the fish is.
Swim bladder problems with goldfish are common.

Matt...how much table (iodized) salt would I use in a 10 gallon hospital tank? Would I add it all at once and would I leave him in it or just for a certain amount of time? Thanks for your help

Oops it looks like Iodized salt is a no no. That is the only kind of table salt I have

 

[Roz]

Are you certain the Nitrate test is being undertaken properly? You have to shake the hell out of bottle No 2 (30 seconds), and then the test tube (60 seconds).

The bent position of the fish may suggest high nitrates...?

Would be worth retesting...