HELP! Something is wrong with my tank!

[JulieB]

I'm going to apologize right now for the impending novel. I just want to give you guys as much info as possible about my tank to help you help me figure out what's wrong.

I have a 56 Gallon plexi-glass tank with a built-in wet/dry filter. I have 2 pearl gouramis (Male & Female), 2 angel fish (one veiled), 1 pleco, 4 assorted cory cats, 2 yo-yo loaches, 2 black skirt tetras, 2 serape tetras, 3 congo tetras, 1 columbian tetra, and 2 Boesemani rainbows (was three until today), and maybe a dozen neon tetras. I feed them flake food (never clouded the water before and I've been using it for over 5 years now) and sometimes blood worms. The tank is planted with very healthy, thriving plants. There are a few sandstone rocks and a couple of pieces of driftwood/roots (everything purchased from an aquarium).

I do weekly water changes (I take out about 1/4 - 1/2 of the tank water while vacuuming and remove all of the water in the filter). I rinse the carbon and ammonia and nitrate pads at this time, and change them monthly. I change the non-treated filter pads weekly.

Now that you know my tanks life story, here's my problem: About 4 weeks ago, the tank got cloudy...really cloudy. I kept up on the water changes and used a water-clearing solution I got at the store, no change. My husband did a major water change last week (took out about 3/4 of the water). At this time he filled the filter chamber with scalding water to kill the hundreds of snails, then vacuumed it and the dead snails out before refilling the tank. The tank was clear for about a day, then it clouded back up.

About 2 months ago the tank was overrun with algae and I finally got rid of it with "Algae Destroyer". It did cloud the water, but I haven't added it for about a month now.

I'm afraid that whatever is in the water making it cloudy is hurting the fish. They are all acting fine, but still, it can't be healthy. And today, I found one Boesemani rainbow with hair-like strands sticking out of her left gill, and there was a white cottony mass in her throat attached to the hairs. I'm guessing this is fungus. I put her down because she was pretty far gone already, gasping and her color was very dull and gray. The rest of the fish look fine though.

What can I do?? Nothing has changed since we set up the tank in April. I treat the water with API's Stress Coat water conditioner and add Flourish fertilizer.

The parameters are:
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrate: 25ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Total Hardness: 120ppm
Total Alkalinity: 40ppm
pH: 6.4
Temp: 84 Fahrenheit

Again, I apologize for the novel! I'm just so worried about it, I don't want my fishies to suffer!!

Thanks!

Julie

P.S - So I just realized that I posted this in the wrong forum (I'm blaming this on the fact that I'm new here) but if you have any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it!!!

Thanks so much!

 

[pobdave]

That tank is not cycled!
Maybe a cycle has started but it has been stalled with all the medicating/water changes and cleaning.

Im guessing the cloudiness was a bacterial bloom which is normally pretty harmless but-removing all the water started everything from scratch again.

Remove all the fish,re-house them and cycle the tank I would suggest.

 

[JDogg]

#1 you should not have ANY ammonia...you husband killed all the good bacteria with the scalding water...you are now re-cycling your tank :? if you do not know about the cycle read this...
you of course can not do the recommended fish-less cycle as you have fish in your tank...

stop using the algae destroyer and clearing solution...

stop vacuuming the gravel (if your tank is planted you are removing both good bacteria and nutrients your plants need)

start testing your water twice a day, if either Ammonia or Nitrite are over .5 ppm do at least a 50% pwc, maybe 75% depending on how high they are... when ammonia and nitrite are 0 ppm and all you have is nitrate then you are out of the cycle...

cloudy water may turn into green water, that might almost be good because the GW will keep the ammonia down...

oh and WELCOME TO AA, you can to a great place to get help!

That tank is not cycled!
Maybe a cycle has started but it has been stalled with all the medicating/water changes and cleaning.
.

if the tank was 5 years old it probaly was cycled at one time...

 

[pobdave]

Interesting point about the algae destroyer Jdog,I have never used these-do they actually work?What can be harmful about them?Ive often been tempted due to brush algae having taken a hold on one of my tanks-ruining the java ferns and tank in general.Its a pain to shift!

 

[JDogg]

Interesting point about the algae destroyer Jdog,I have never used these-do they actually work?What can be harmful about them?Ive often been tempted due to brush algae having taken a hold on one of my tanks-ruining the java ferns and tank in general.Its a pain to shift!

there are better and safer, natural ways to fight algae... but that is another topic...

i do not trust any chemical to not affect the bio-filter

besides, a lot of dead algae could easily be causing a ammonia spike/bacteria bloom/impending green water....

 

[rich311k]

What color is the cloud? If it is white/gray I imagine it is a bacteria bloom. Keep up water changes and when your tank finishes recycling it should clear back up.

It is also possibly the start of GW. Ammonia and light often lead to a green water outbreak. If it is we will help you deal with that as well.

 

[JulieB]

But the tank was cloudy BEFORE he killed the snails. We thought that the hundreds of snails (which only lived in the filter) was maybe causing the cloudyness. And yes, the cloud is white/gray...bacteria...

I'll go do a water change, it was already in my plan for today. So will the bacterial bloom eventually go away? If it turns into green water, how long will it be green?

So I should stop vacuuming all together? It gets pretty yucky in there. I don't over feed, but they eat a lot (you can follow where this is going)

The tank is only 7 months old. 5 years ago I got a 5 gal. which was then transplanted into a 10 gal, transplanted into an 18 gal, then into the 56 gal in April.

Thanks for all of your help everyone!!!

 

[JDogg]

So I should stop vacuuming all together? It gets pretty yucky in there. I don't over feed, but they eat a lot (you can follow where this is going)


Thanks for all of your help everyone!!!

think of it as fertalizer for your plants...

 

[JulieB]

Okeydokey!

I just want to say that you guys are awesome! I really appreciate the quick and helpful response. What a welcoming community!

Also, My husband just corrected me on what I said earlier about his method of killing the snails. He took out all of the filter media, including all of the bio balls before doing it. So there should have still been plenty of bacteria. And, the bloom started before the snail-icide. Regardless, we still have a bacteria problem and I just did a water change. I'll keep you posted (and probably ask A LOT more questions!)

 

[MarkP]

If you have a bacterial bloom, it's because there is something in your water the bacteria is feeding on.

The bloom won't go away until whatever is causing that bloom is gone.

The chain of events, as I understand it, is...

Algae -> Algae Destroyer -> Cloudy Water -> Snailicide -> Fish Deaths

Also, since you have ammonia in the water, at some point you either got a huge influx of ammonia, or your lost part/all of your bio-filter. This is what you need to fix first, in my opinion.

I suspect you lost your bio-filter when you cleaned it- I say this because ammonia, in my experiance, kills snails fairly quickly. If the ammonia was around before that, I'd think it would kill the snails.

I think the bacertia bloom was initially from lingering effects of the Algae Treatment. Either the dead algae started decomposing and releasing something into the water, or the additive itself, or some mixture. Or maybe you have hardier snails then I do, and the Algae treatment killed part of your bio filter.

What do you use to treat your water? Do you know if you have Chlorine or Chlorimine?

Either way, I would recommend large, frequent water changes until your ammonia reading is zero- Treat it like a new cycle in the tank. Use a product like Prime that treats Chlorine and Chloramine, and helps detoxify the ammonia. If feasible, perhaps add some zeolite to your filter as a temporary mearsure.

Check the tank for possible ammonia sources- You are absolutely certain that all fish are accounted for, and all the plants are growing well? No chance of a dead neon tetra hidden in the roots of a plant, or a plant that isn't growing as well as you thought? Even the best LFS I have around me sells plants that die after a few months of growing submerged (Although they do, usually, label them "bog" plants").

Bacteria Blooms are generally not harmfull to fish, and you can wait them out. High Ammonia levels are lethal to fish. Treat the ammonia problem, and chances are very good the bacteria bloom will be fixed as well.

 

[JulieB]

In the past, I've use "Cycle" an additive of beneficial bacteria. Should I add some of that too? Or is that just a waste of money? I use API's stress coat to treat the water. It neutralizes the chlorine, and has aloe vera for the fishies. I don't know if it affects chloramine, or what chloramine is really.

I did a 50% water change today and I'm off to the pet store tomorrow to buy some Prime and more carbon. Do you think that the ammonia may have gotten out of control due to not enough carbon? I THOUGHT I was using enough...

Thanks for the help!

 

[supermazz9]

I did a 50% water change today and I'm off to the pet store tomorrow to buy some Prime and more carbon. Do you think that the ammonia may have gotten out of control due to not enough carbon? I THOUGHT I was using enough...

Thanks for the help!

Now that she's brought it up, should she even have carbon in there? What purpose would it be serving?

I'm just thinking that it's obviously not helping her bloom, she doesn't have a huge bioload...I don't know...any input?

 

[coldmachineUK]

Carbon won't cause any problems if it's used, but it won't help with the bacteria bloom either since it will only remove chemical impurities. It might be an idea to use though to get rid of any algaecide treatment remaining in the water.

The tank is definitely undergoing a mini-cycle by the sounds of it: I think you perhaps overcleaned your filter which has prompted that. The algaecide might have contributed too.

I wouldn't panic too much though: a bacterial bloom in itself won't harm your fish but the root cause of it (a disruption in the nitrogen cycle) may be harmful if you've sensitive fish in there. I don't think your cycle is going to start from scratch: I think it's just going to undergo a mini cycle over the next week (or two tops). Keep up with pwcs (you're best with many small changes than fewer large changes -> less stress to fish since the change in params will be less dramatic for them), and test your water to watch those ammonia and nitrite levels. I don't think you need to test twice a day: once a day should be enough.

 

[MarkP]

No, the ammonia did not get out of control because of too little carbon. Carbon does not have any affect on ammonia. Carbon primarily removes DOC's, suchs as tannins and phenols. If your tank has yellow water, or smells bad, use carbon. Otherwise, feel free to use it or not, as you see fit. Some people swear by carbon, others refuse to touch the stuff. Both sides have healthy aquariums to prove they are right.

If you want to add something to your filter to help with ammonia, add Zeolite. It looks like white carbon, and is sold under brand names like "Ammo-Chips" or "Ammo-Lock". It's all the same stuff. This should be a temporary mearsure to help you untill your bio-filter comes back on line. Once your ammonia levels reach zero, you can stop using it.

Chlorine and Chloramine serve the same purpose in your pipes. The difference is that Choramine requires a water conditioner to remove (You can't age it overnight like Chlorine), and Chloramine produces ammonia when you add the conditioner.

To test, take a glass of water from your tap. Add some water conditioner. Test for ammonia. If you detect any ammonia, use a water conditioner that helps with ammonia, such as Prime. You can use other brand names, Prime is just the one I use.

A bacteria additive probably wouldn't hurt. I've never used "Cycle" personally. If you haven't bought it already, I've heard good reviews of "Nitro-Spira"- Especially if the bottle has been kept refrigerated. There is no need to continously add this kind of stuff- It's a one time deal, not part of weekly or monthly maintance. I generally just wash a used filter in a tank to help cycle. If you use a friends, make sure you get to your tank quickly, and keep it in some tank water.


I don't know exactly what Stress Coat is supposed to do, nor do I know if Aloe Vera actually helps the fish. I don't like to add stuff unless I know what it does, why it does it, and what side effects it may have.

 

[JulieB]

So if the mini-cycle should only last 1-2 weeks, how come I've had cloudy water for 4 weeks now? Do you mean 1-2 additional weeks? Again, the cloudy water is what prompted the hot-water cleaning of the filter chambers (not the bio balls and filter pads).

I'll probably keep the carbon in in to help get any chemicals left over from the aglae destroyer and whatever else might be in the water.

Stress coat is (quoted from the bottle) "A fish and tap water conditioner with the healing power of Aloe Vera. Replaces slime coat, reducer electrolyte loss, promotes tissue regenerations, removes chlorine and neutralizes chloramines, and detoxifiesa heavy metals."

So when I use my water conditioner, I'm actually creating ammonia in my tank...which is bad... so I need to use another conditioner to combat the ammonia. Should I use Prime along with my stress coat? Or just Prime? Or something else entirely? Should I use Prime or add the Zeolite to the filter? I don't want to start adding one kind of chemical just to combat another kind of added chemical, etc. If that what I need to do, cool. But I prefer the KIS method whenever possible (Keep It Simple!)

To test my parameters, I bought two kinds of test strips, one for ammonia, and one for nitrate, nitrite, total hardness, total alkalinity, and pH. They're the kind with the little pads on them and you match the color of the pad to the colors on the bottle to get your reading. However, it's tough to tell sometimes if the pad is yellow, yellow-green, green-yellow, etc. Any suggestions for a better test kit? I'd like something a little more accurate I just tested my water and according to the yellowish pad, I'm somewhere in between 0 and .25 ppm...but I'm not sure exactly. :S

Again, thanks for all of your help and input! I really appreciate it everyone!!!

 

[JDogg]

use just prim imo

throw out the test stips, they are worthless ime... to get good results you will need a good liquid reagent kit, like AP freshwater Master kit


i am in a straight to the point kind of mood today


HTH

 

[JulieB]

I'll give it a try JDogg

 

[coldmachineUK]

No, your ammonia reading has nothing to do with the bacterial bloom you're experiencing, but it does have something to do with you having cleaned out the filter so thoroughly IMO.

So it went: bloom -> cleaned filter (removed some good bacteria) -> ammonia levels rise
Now you're in a mini cycle. Give it a week and ammonia should drop and nitrite may rise a little until you're fully cycled again.

Hope that explains what I meant better

Stress Coat should be fine: I've never heard of a dechlor product creating ammonia, I'm not sure I understand the logic in that and I'm fairly sure a company wouldn't be able to sell a product successfully if it had such a negative side effect.
I personally use Tetra Aquasafe, some people use Prime, others use a variety of other products. They generally do the same thing.

Keep up with water changes, get an API FW Master Test Kit, check your readings again (and once a day subsequently until the ammonia and then nitrite levels drop back down to 0ppm), and see if your bacteria bloom settles.

That said a friend's coldwater tank experienced a bacterial bloom after she changed filter media. Did you swap any out before the bloom (ignoring the subsequent cleaning of it)? Anyway, it settled over time (but I think it took a couple of months).

 

[JulieB]

Yeah, I probably did change the filter media in the cleaning prior to the bloom. I usually change the pads and carbon once a month, I wonder why it disrupted the balance this time... weird.

It would be great if the Stress Coat will be fine. I just bought a big bottle and I'd hate to waste it, but I will do whatever is best for the tank, not my bottle of conditioners!

 

[sudz]

Good bacteria is everywhere in your tank, the substrate, on plants, and not only in the filter media, but the "sludge" in the filter as well. I'm guessing your tank was "too" clean... I.E. Sterile. The chemicals just set it over the edge and started a cycle. What pump/filter do you have for your tank? (if you mentioned it, I'm sorry, i must have missed it!)