Help with fishless cycle!

[swishy123]

Hi!

So I have just set up a 20 G long tank which I plan on keeping community fish in later. It is 3 weeks old and I test everyday. I have had nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia present for a solid week and a half (even after WC). I was recommended to do a 90% WC by my LFS so I did and my levels were 0 nitrite, 0.25 nitrate, and 0.25 ammonia after. 4 days have passed and my levels are reading 4 ppm ammonia, 5-10 ppm nitrate, and 0.5 ppm nitrite. I have also done 20-30% WC every couple days but don’t want to alter the bacteria too much. I use the API testing kit and also have low KH (3 drops) that I up have used seachem alkaline buffer with (recommended by my local fish store when my kh was at 1 drop). I am worried about high levels and am wondering if I should do a complete drain and start over. I don’t want to add fish until my chemistry is complete but also do not want to overwhelm my plants (although lots of new growth). I have a sponge filter and HOB with replaced given filter media with bio rings and added a filter intake sponge. I have a marine land heater, mopani wood (I like the tannins), and dragon stone. I also have low-medium light plants (about 8) and have had significant growth within the past 2 weeks. I use root tabs and easy green from Aquarium Co-op as well. I use fritz water conditioner, api QuickStart, and occasionally searches stability. I have other api stuff like ammo lock, stress-zyme, and stress coat that I occasionally put in. I have had many other tanks in the past and just upgraded from a 5 gallon where I had a betta for 2.5 years (RIP Percy). I am also upgrading my light to the fluval plant 3.0 from my Aqueon optibright since I want more plants. I have no CO2 in the tank or under gravel filter. My substrate is a mixture of sand and smooth gravel from Petco and my decorations/plants from my LFS. I have gotten conflicting advice from my 3 LFS about my levels and figured I’d ask the forum. Should I drain the tank completely and start fresh or keep it going after the 4 week mark? I have only ever done fish in cycles so this is new territory for me. Any suggestions would be helpful! Here’s a pic of my tank for reference.

P.S- I also have slight white algae on my wood but nothing that hasn’t gone away when I touch it.

 

[Aiken Drum]

How are you adding ammonia into your tank?

I dont get the point of all the water changes. All that will do is remove ammonia. You need the ammonia in the tank to feed your cycle. Constantly removing it will slow down how long it takes to establish your cycle.

Why are you doing a fishless cycle if you have done fish in cycles in the past?

It doesnt really sound like you understand how to do a fishless cycle. Ill post a method of doing one.

 

[Aiken Drum]

To cycle a tank you need to grow denitrifying bacteria to consume ammonia and nitrite that your tank produces. The bacteria needs an ammonia source to grow colonies sufficient in size to consume all the ammonia and resultant nitrite and turn it into nitrate which typically you remove through your regular water changes.

A fishless cycle uses an ammonia source to replicate the fish waste that a tank of fish would produce. This ammonia source can be pure ammonia, an aquarium specific ammonium chloride product like Dr Tims Ammonium Chloride, a cocktail shrimp or fish food.

Ill assume we are using an ammonium chloride product.

Set up your tank. Make sure everything is running smoothly. Make sure you have used a water conditioner product with any tap water you have put in your tank. If you have an adjustable heater raise the temperature to 28c/82.5f.

You should have a test kit. Preferably a liquid test kit. It should test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

Dose the ammonia chloride to approx 4ppm and start testing daily for ammonia. Once your ammonia drops below 1ppm redose it back to 2ppm. This may take a couple of weeks.

Start to test daily for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Whenever your ammonia drops below 1ppm redose it back to 2ppm.

You should start to see nitrite and possibly nitrate in your daily tests. Over time your nitrite should start to rise and the amount of ammonia should start to drop further. Your ammonia may start to not be detectable in your daily tests. Keep redosing ammonia daily if you see it below 1ppm. Your nitrite may rise off the testing chart. I prefer to keep nitrite within measurable levels so it shouldn’t hurt to do a water change to keep readings on the chart. Remember to add water conditioner whenever you put tap water in the tank. Nitrate should appear in your water test at some point too.

Over time your nitrite should level off and begin to fall in a similar manner to what your ammonia tests did. When you are able to dose ammonia to 2ppm and 24 hours later see 0 ammonia and nitrite you are cycled. At this point you have enough denitrifying bacteria to consume all the ammonia and nitrite of a moderately stocked tank. You may want to continue dosing ammonia for a few days to make sure it continues to consume all the ammonia and nitrite and be sure your cycle has properly established before proceeding.

Your nitrate will likely be very high. Do a big water change to get nitrate down. Preferably below 10ppm. Adjust your temperature to the needs of your fish. Get your fish, acclimate and add to your tank. I would advise stocking lightly to start with and slowly adding fish until fully stocked.

A fishless cycle typically takes 6 to 8 weeks.

A good way to speed up this process would be to put a small amount of filter media from an established filter into your filter, or get a sponge from an established filter and squeeze it into your tank water. Perhaps you have a friend who keeps fish who could let you have some? This will seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow and speed up the process.

Another option is bottled bacteria like Dr Tims One + Only or Tetra Safestart. These products wont instantly cycle a tank as they claim but in a similar manner to adding established filter media they can seed your filter with the bacteria you are trying to grow to establish your cycle. These products are hit and miss as to whether they work at all, but are an option if established filter media isnt obtainable and may speed up the process from several months to several weeks.

 

[swishy123]

Hi Aiken,

Thanks for the response! I added some plants too soon in my tank when I first set it up and they died pretty quickly. I tried to remove them but had a decent amount of dead plant matter floating around. When I saw ammonia spike to 0.25 I decided to not take all of the debris since I figured I would use that as my ammonia source. I just figure I can drain the tank and start with pure ammonia but would it do anything since I already have some? I wanted to try a fishless cycle because I have stressed my fish out in the past and I really want to avoid doing that again. I cycled with zebra danios which was recommended as a hearty fish by my LFS but I was still learning and had some casualties. It was kinda stressful and I wouldn’t want to go back to it personally. I am very patient though and am willing to wait, I just don’t want to hinder the cycle. I just have not seen a drop in ammonia unless I do a giant WC, so I am not sure if I just should do a clean of the tank or let it run its course. I was told 4PPM of ammonia in a cycle would stall it by my LFS employee so but I hear other things from online. I always give 24 hours before testing the next day so I will check the readings tonight. Thanks for your advice!

 

[Aiken Drum]

You should start your cycle at 4ppm to give it a good starting point. After thats gone redose it up to 2ppm.

Do you still have any of these other tanks? Should be a simple matter to introduce a little filter media from an established tank to seed your new filter and speed things up no end.

 

[swishy123]

Hi Aiken,

The other tanks I had I had to sell since I was in college and couldn’t keep them in my dorm. I still have a 5 gallon fluval spec that I love and still have but the filter for it was made for that tank kit and my 20 gallon I put together from scratch. The sponge pad had inserts to put in but I didn’t see a way to incorporate that into my new tank without having the divider that my spec had. So I just started a new HOB (that didn’t fit the sponge from my 5 gallon) and a new sponge filter. I did use the same decorations and substrate though and added the plants in later.

So would you suggest just letting the 4PPM of ammonia sit until it goes down? I won’t do any PWC unless the ammonia gets insane. I also am dosing 1 capful of seachem stability everyday (only 3 days so far) to see if that helps. My nitrite has jumped from 0.25 to 0.5 within a day so I can see that the ammonia and nitrite are going up together. My nitrate also reads around 5-10 PPM. Thanks for the reply!

 

[gilpi]

Can you squeeze some of the water from the sponge in the 5 gallon into your new filter?

 

[rlederer]

Aikin Drum knows his stuff and gives good advice, so I can't add much to the conversation except that I had 20 tanks a one point a few years ago and so have a bit of experience cycling. My advice is to back off all those additives/chemicals. I use the conservative approach and just leave everything alone for six weeks, except maybe adding a sponge or filter media from a cycled tank and a bit of fish food. Using all those chemical solutions just keeps changing the water parameters. Just let nature do its thing.

 

[swishy123]

Hi everyone!

Thank you for your help and advice! I kept doing water changes when the levels got too high and just left it and my levels have stabilized to 0 PPM nitrite, 0 PPM ammonia, and 20-30 PPM nitrate (week 4). My plant growth is good and I put one pump of nitrate based fertilizer a day since I have quite a few plants. I added some pure ammonia (2 PPM) and it was converted within 24 hours. I am assuming my tank is cycled from the information I have looked at. I did a large water change to dilute the nitrate to 5 PPM and I am letting it rest for 2 days before going to my LFS to buy some fish. I am going to stock light first and keep adding as the weeks go on to not shock the system.

Side note: my fluval spec (5 gallon) is cleaned and dried and sitting on my counter. I had my betta fish for 2.5 years and he passed away a couple months ago. I decided to clean that tank and set up the 20 gallon but now it’s just empty and I am thinking of restarting it again. The filter is dry and I have to put new media in it but I was wondering if I should put my sponge filter from my 20G in the 5 to get it started since that one has cycled. If so is there an average timeline for cycling with used media?