Help with ph!

[uncgirl1]

Dang, and your tap is higher? But the ph is low in the tank. Thats truely strange. How old is the test kit? Probably new and not a factor i bet lol


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LOL, it's brand new. That was a concern as well so I bought a new one a few pages back. Like I said, loooooooong thread ruling out a lot of things but not any definitive answers yet. I'm still working on it with the help of the awesome people in this thread. I am determined to figure this out!

 

[Delapool]

If ok, what were the rough costs of the buffers and coral you bought? We tend to suggest coral as fairly pure and slower acting but as well I always thought it worked out cheaper?

I do have a bag of soft limestone rock but it's easy here to find what you want as Perth is a sandy limestone area.

 

[uncgirl1]

If ok, what were the rough costs of the buffers and coral you bought? We tend to suggest coral as fairly pure and slower acting but as well I always thought it worked out cheaper?

I do have a bag of soft limestone rock but it's easy here to find what you want as Perth is a sandy limestone area.

The buffers I bought from Amazon. They were $7 each. (US) Seachem Alkaline and Acid buffers. I also bought Seachem Equilibrium. That was $10. I haven't opened them and will return them if they aren't necessary. The crushed coral I bought was $13. It's a pretty big bag so just putting it in my filter, it should last quite a while. All in all, less than I've spent on most things for the aquarium.

What I meant wouldn't be cost effective would be to take a bag of the crushed coral and dump it into a huge water container and use that to get the kh and ph right and then add to my aquarium. Over time, that would add up considerably with the amount of water changes necessary to keep aquariums healthy! I could probably reuse it for a while but would have to replace fairly often from what I understand due to it breaking down. Maybe I misunderstood.

The crushed coral I added to the filter last night seems to be doing its job though. My ph hasn't moved in 24 hours! That's huge progress. The water column is quite cloudy today and I'm assuming that is from the coral. I rinsed it but clearly not good enough. Hopefully, that will calm down soon. I also tested for parameters. I've got .25 ammonia, 0 nitrItes, and 10 nitrates. I was so happy to see nitrates as I know now my cycle wasn't completely destroyed. I did a small water change to help with the .25 ammonia.

I am still searching to find the underlying cause but at least I know that for right now, things are stable. I hope that Caliban hears from his friend that had a similar problem to mine. Maybe that info will help me.


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[hjsvt]

I think you may have misunderstood. "I didn't say no ph adjusting" "no buffers added" "copious water changes will solve you problems"

In the average community freshwater aquarium, ph altering is actually unnecessary in 90% of situations. Most freshwater fish can and will adapt to a wide range of ph values quite easily. Freshwater fish have regulating organs that are able to keep the blood ph within the correct range. That is not to say that acclimating a fish to a ph that is outside of its natural range does not place extra burden on these organs and the energy expenditure in order to do this may be increased but generally fish will adapt. Personally I would tend to opt for fish that are more suited to my tap water and I would say that fish do have a preferable ph but in most cases it is not a requirement.

Chasing a desired ph can be a tedious and frustrating endeavour for even experienced aquarist let alone beginners but at the same time in most cases advising people not to chase ph is often solid advice regardless of what the chemistry of their source water is.

People often ask why one would want to alter ph and the usual response is that there fish prefer this ph level. My first answer would be I agree but they will adapt. My second answer would be buy fish that prefer the ph of your tap water. Ph stability is more critical and is less dangerous for the fish than chasing a desired ph fact.

The use of buffers is not something that I am against i and often recommend them myself but as delapool pointed out, the term buffers is very broad. Natural slower buffers like peat moss, driftwood and crushed coral etc are natural and more stable buffers.

Commercially available ph altering solutions are unpredictable and generally don't work for long. This results in fluctuating ph which is not recommended by most on here.

As for saltwater. Actually RODI water is preferable if not imperative to reef keepers as it serves as a blank canvas for achieving the desired parameters necessary for the healtly growth of inhabitants. Natural salts will be used in conjunction with RODI water to achieve the correct salinity. These salts will incorporate the fundamental natural buffers such as calcium, magnesium, bi carbonates etc. These levels can then be maintained using systems such as kalkwasser or calcium reactors to keep alkalinity and calcium high as well as maintain the desired ph.

I honestly believe that uncgirl doesn't have to "put up" with this ph also. But I also believe that what she is experiencing can be rectified without the reliance on ph altering chemicals. It's not normal for ph to drop that low.

Thank you very much for the great explanation. Makes sense to me. I appreciate you taking the time to respond and explain.

 

[Delapool]

The buffers I bought from Amazon. They were $7 each. (US) Seachem Alkaline and Acid buffers. I also bought Seachem Equilibrium. That was $10. I haven't opened them and will return them if they aren't necessary. The crushed coral I bought was $13. It's a pretty big bag so just putting it in my filter, it should last quite a while. All in all, less than I've spent on most things for the aquarium.

What I meant wouldn't be cost effective would be to take a bag of the crushed coral and dump it into a huge water container and use that to get the kh and ph right and then add to my aquarium. Over time, that would add up considerably with the amount of water changes necessary to keep aquariums healthy! I could probably reuse it for a while but would have to replace fairly often from what I understand due to it breaking down. Maybe I misunderstood.

The crushed coral I added to the filter last night seems to be doing its job though. My ph hasn't moved in 24 hours! That's huge progress. The water column is quite cloudy today and I'm assuming that is from the coral. I rinsed it but clearly not good enough. Hopefully, that will calm down soon. I also tested for parameters. I've got .25 ammonia, 0 nitrItes, and 10 nitrates. I was so happy to see nitrates as I know now my cycle wasn't completely destroyed. I did a small water change to help with the .25 ammonia.

I am still searching to find the underlying cause but at least I know that for right now, things are stable. I hope that Caliban hears from his friend that had a similar problem to mine. Maybe that info will help me.


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That's good news

 

[Caliban07]

Thank you very much for the great explanation. Makes sense to me. I appreciate you taking the time to respond and explain.

That's ok


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[Caliban07]

The buffers I bought from Amazon. They were $7 each. (US) Seachem Alkaline and Acid buffers. I also bought Seachem Equilibrium. That was $10. I haven't opened them and will return them if they aren't necessary. The crushed coral I bought was $13. It's a pretty big bag so just putting it in my filter, it should last quite a while. All in all, less than I've spent on most things for the aquarium.

What I meant wouldn't be cost effective would be to take a bag of the crushed coral and dump it into a huge water container and use that to get the kh and ph right and then add to my aquarium. Over time, that would add up considerably with the amount of water changes necessary to keep aquariums healthy! I could probably reuse it for a while but would have to replace fairly often from what I understand due to it breaking down. Maybe I misunderstood.

The crushed coral I added to the filter last night seems to be doing its job though. My ph hasn't moved in 24 hours! That's huge progress. The water column is quite cloudy today and I'm assuming that is from the coral. I rinsed it but clearly not good enough. Hopefully, that will calm down soon. I also tested for parameters. I've got .25 ammonia, 0 nitrItes, and 10 nitrates. I was so happy to see nitrates as I know now my cycle wasn't completely destroyed. I did a small water change to help with the .25 ammonia.

I am still searching to find the underlying cause but at least I know that for right now, things are stable. I hope that Caliban hears from his friend that had a similar problem to mine. Maybe that info will help me.


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Well this is the response from my friend.

My TDS, gH, kH all of that is really low. My TDS is usually 10-20.

To stabilize pH I do the crushed coral in the filter. It stays around 7-7.5 depending on the tank.

So there we have it. Natural buffering

The more acidic the water is the faster the coral will dissolve releasing kh in to the water.


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[uncgirl1]

Well this is the response from my friend.

My TDS, gH, kH all of that is really low. My TDS is usually 10-20.

To stabilize pH I do the crushed coral in the filter. It stays around 7-7.5 depending on the tank.

So there we have it. Natural buffering

The more acidic the water is the faster the coral will dissolve releasing kh in to the water.


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Thank you for asking your friend. And that's great news as that is what I am doing! So far, the ph is holding steady. It's not as high as your friend but maybe it will get there. I'm ok with it in the high 6 range. The one thing I don't know if the TDS of my tank or my tap water.

 

[uncgirl1]

On a side note, anyone know how long it takes for the water to clear up after adding crushed coral to the filter? I rinsed for what seemed like forever but apparently not enough.


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[Caliban07]

On a side note, anyone know how long it takes for the water to clear up after adding crushed coral to the filter? I rinsed for what seemed like forever but apparently not enough.


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Put some fine filter floss floss in the filter if you haven't got any. That should do the trick.


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[TankinWithUs]

oh no!! hate that you're having trouble!!!

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[uncgirl1]

Put some fine filter floss floss in the filter if you haven't got any. That should do the trick.


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No, I don't. That's just Poly-Fil or something similar, right? And then I just cram it in there? I have purigen. Would that work?


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[uncgirl1]

So three days later and the ph is still holding steady at 6.8 or 7. API color chart = not easy to differentiate. I tested this morning and I have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 10 nitrates. Gh is up to 6 and Kh is 2 or 3 depending on which yellow. 2 looks more clear but 3 is definitely light yellow. I'm feeling good about all this! I know I'll have to keep monitoring and replace crushed coral as needed but I'm feeling victorious! Thank you to everyone who helped on this thread. Especially Delapool, Caliban07, and hjsvt. You guys are the best and I couldn't have done it without your support and advice.


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[Caliban07]

No, I don't. That's just Poly-Fil or something similar, right? And then I just cram it in there? I have purigen. Would that work?


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Just use the floss. As the ph rises the slower the coral will corrode and dissolve.


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[Caliban07]

So three days later and the ph is still holding steady at 6.8 or 7. API color chart = not easy to differentiate. I tested this morning and I have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 10 nitrates. Gh is up to 6 and Kh is 2 or 3 depending on which yellow. 2 looks more clear but 3 is definitely light yellow. I'm feeling good about all this! I know I'll have to keep monitoring and replace crushed coral as needed but I'm feeling victorious! Thank you to everyone who helped on this thread. Especially Delapool, Caliban07, and hjsvt. You guys are the best and I couldn't have done it without your support and advice.


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Good stuff. Btw my friend said that her kh was practically 0 turned after 1 drop.


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[Delapool]

If ok, could you update on where it settles to for a ph after say a week? I'm curious what ph value it will climb up to.

 

[uncgirl1]

If ok, could you update on where it settles to for a ph after say a week? I'm curious what ph value it will climb up to.

Yes, I will post back here!


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[hjsvt]

So three days later and the ph is still holding steady at 6.8 or 7. API color chart = not easy to differentiate. I tested this morning and I have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 10 nitrates. Gh is up to 6 and Kh is 2 or 3 depending on which yellow. 2 looks more clear but 3 is definitely light yellow. I'm feeling good about all this! I know I'll have to keep monitoring and replace crushed coral as needed but I'm feeling victorious! Thank you to everyone who helped on this thread. Especially Delapool, Caliban07, and hjsvt. You guys are the best and I couldn't have done it without your support and advice.

Yay! So great to hear! I'm so happy and excited that your problems appear to be solved! Thanks for the recognition! Although I don't know that I contributed much (other than pot stirring) but I do have to say I have definitely learned a lot being a part of the conversation. So I'm very very glad for that aspect. I now know about Equilibrium and pH alert and have my own on order. The pH pond kit isn't going to end up helping me but definitely was worth knowing about and having. My own problems continue but I'm starting another thread about that soon. The good news is I am making progress and my fish are still alive 1 week in!

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[uncgirl1]

I'm back! I added the crushed coral 6 days ago and it's definitely doing its job. Maybe too well. I checked my parameters tonight and I've got no ammonia or nitrites and 5-10 nitrates. Which is great! My fish are doing great. They look good, beautiful color, eating good, swimming all over the place. My ph? It's now 7.6 on the normal ph test and 7.8 on the high ph! Is it possible to add to much coral? Will taking some out reduce it at all? Geez, I feel like I can't win! These poor fish have been through more ph swings than is reasonable at this point.
*Edited to add: After a Google search, I decided to remove some of the coral. I'll keep testing. I'd really rather the ph not go past 7.5. I wasn't expecting more than 7!

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[hjsvt]

That's good and surprising too. I would have expected the pH increases to slow down as the pH increased if that makes sense. And I absolutely think you can over due anything, even a good thing. Back to that whole finding a balance idea. Do you have a way to weigh out the coral you add and document how much it changes the pH? I would try to make a relationship between weight added and pH increase. Then you might be able to keep it more consistent.

Did you test the KH? I was just curious what KH you were readingat that pH. I think I'm finally getting a better understanding of the relationship between pH and KH after my experiences.

BTW, my husband asked tonight if I could clean up the "laboratory" a little so we could sit at the table for dinner! Lol! I have buckets and jars and test stuff everywhere. But I think I am finally making progress on my own issues! Yay!

So glad your fish are doing great! So glad there are such hardy fish out there!