Help with the second part of fishless cycling! (Plus a plant question)

[Aneamals]

So I thought I was almost done cycling when I read high nitrites and almost high nitrates for the first time. (I'm using API test strips) Then it stayed with high nitrites (10ppm) and almost high nitrates (80 ppm) forever. Then I discovered I had to do a 50% water change each day until the nitrites went down, and only nitrates were high.

I've done the water change for 2 days now, and instead of my nitrItes lowering, my nitrAtes are lowering drastically. My nitrAtes have lowered to 20ppm, next to 0 on the scale, in approximately 24 hours after the 2 days of 50% water changes. My nitrItes are lowering veryyyy slowly, still not close to 0, they're actually about 5ppm I'd say, right next to where it was before, 10ppm.

Is this normal? Am I doing something wrong? Will the nitrates rise again? Will the nitrites ever lower to 0? How long should I be doing 50% water changes daily? I've only done 2 now. I didn't do one today because I'm worried about my really low nitrates.

P.s. I have some Marimo Balls in a separate pot with their own conditioned water. Can I put them into the cycling tank, even though it's suffering from high nitrites, and soon high nitrates?

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

The fact that you see nitrites and nitrates is a good sign. Even so they're a little wacky right now, but their presence is indicative to the nitrogen cycle taking place. When I cycled my tank, I didn't do daily 50% PWC's. That's usually reserved if you get spikes in your parameters and you have livestock to worry about. Since you're fishless, 1 or 2 PWC's is fine... then waiting... then testing... then waiting again, etc. Once the ammonia and nitrites hit zero, you're good to start stocking slowly to keep the BB fed and get your tank balanced.

I would definitely add the marimo moss ball. They should have beneficial bacteria on them and help with seeding more to the tank. Plus they also absorb and use nutrients. In fact, if you're planning on a planted tank, you should plant as heavy as possible off the get-go.

Lastly, the test "strips" have been known to not be as reliable or accurate as a good liquid test kit. I'd get an API Freshwater Master test kit as soon as you can.

 

[Plantaholic]

No water changes! In a fish less cycle there isn't any reason to. Let the nitrates consume the nitrites, then once there are no nitrites you use water changes to control nitrates. Think of the water as the nitrates, you remove 50% of the water- you are removing 50% of the nitrates. If it is the "nitrate bacteria" that consumes the nitrites removing 1/2 of them will slow the process down. After the nitrites are gone and there are fish in the tank an ideal nitrate level is 5-20 ppm.
I would also refrain from adding moss balls until nitrites are gone, as they are heavy nitrate consumers( they would be fine in the water but slow things down!). Hope this helps.


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[Aneamals]

The fact that you see nitrites and nitrates is a good sign. Even so they're a little wacky right now, but their presence is indicative to the nitrogen cycle taking place. When I cycled my tank, I didn't do daily 50% PWC's. That's usually reserved if you get spikes in your parameters and you have livestock to worry about. Since you're fishless, 1 or 2 PWC's is fine... then waiting... then testing... then waiting again, etc. Once the ammonia and nitrites hit zero, you're good to start stocking slowly to keep the BB fed and get your tank balanced.

I would definitely add the marimo moss ball. They should have beneficial bacteria on them and help with seeding more to the tank. Plus they also absorb and use nutrients. In fact, if you're planning on a planted tank, you should plant as heavy as possible off the get-go.

Lastly, the test "strips" have been known to not be as reliable or accurate as a good liquid test kit. I'd get an API Freshwater Master test kit as soon as you can.

Ok, marimos shall go into the tank! And I will try to find the API Freshwater Master Test Kit that I keep hearing so much about, but can't seem to find. Maybe they're just always sold out by the time I get to the store. XD Let me try going early in the morning.

 

[Aneamals]

No water changes! In a fish less cycle there isn't any reason to. Let the nitrates consume the nitrites, then once there are no nitrites you use water changes to control nitrates. Think of the water as the nitrates, you remove 50% of the water- you are removing 50% of the nitrates. If it is the "nitrate bacteria" that consumes the nitrites removing 1/2 of them will slow the process down. After the nitrites are gone and there are fish in the tank an ideal nitrate level is 5-20 ppm.
I would also refrain from adding moss balls until nitrites are gone, as they are heavy nitrate consumers( they would be fine in the water but slow things down!). Hope this helps.


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Oh wow. Ok then, I'll stop doing water changes. And I guess I won't add the marimos after all then!

 

[PNWaquarist]

I'd wait and do nothing for a few days, and see if the nitrites drop down below 5 ppm. If not, do a 50% water change.

I second the recommendation for the API Master Kit.

 

[Plantaholic]

Oh wow. Ok then, I'll stop doing water changes. And I guess I won't add the marimos after all then!

Either way you'll be fine on the moss balls, like Brian said they remove a lot of bad stuff from the water(which is good!) but one of those things is nitrates, which you are using to rid the tank of nitrites currently.


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[jlk]

Your perfectly fine to add the moss balls! If there are other plants you wish to add, now is the best time to add them. Plants are very beneficial to the cycling process and a tank can in fact be completely cycled without toxin spikes utilizing plants (called a 'silent cycle').

Water changes will not harm a cycle, fishless or fishin, so I would not be concerned with these. Fishless, they are sometimes a necessity to restore depleted buffers and minerals and lower spikes that are unreadable in order to jump start a cycle (or in some cases, restart one).

What size tank is this? Temp? How much ammonia have you been dosing daily (4ppm)? How long have your nitrites been sky high? Some more information will help us to help you get back on track!


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[jlk]

Either way you'll be fine on the moss balls, like Brian said they remove a lot of bad stuff from the water(which is good!) but one of those things is nitrates, which you are using to rid the tank of nitrites currently.


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Nitrates do not remove nitrites. Bacteria (nitrobacter, although this is debatable) chemically convert nitrite into nitrate. Nitrate is then removed via water changes. Fast growing plants can help to reduce nitrate levels as well.


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[Plantaholic]

Nitrates do not remove nitrites. Bacteria (nitrobacter, although this is debatable) chemically convert nitrite into nitrate. Nitrate is then removed via water changes. Fast growing plants can help to reduce nitrate levels as well.


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What Jlk said Op... A 20 hour day and a few Coronas have me thinking backwards!


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[Aneamals]

What size tank is this? Temp? How much ammonia have you been dosing daily (4ppm)? How long have your nitrites been sky high? Some more information will help us to help you get back on track!

Tank is 29 gallons. The temperature is 86*F. I'm using raw shrimp for ammonia; the ammonia is at 0ppm with liquid testing (it's the only liquid test I have, everything else is strips, but I'm gonna buy more liquids now). Nitrites have been high for about 2 weeks or more. And nitrates have stayed the same, about in the middle of the scale, for about 2 weeks too.

 

[jlk]

Tank is 29 gallons. The temperature is 86*F. I'm using raw shrimp for ammonia; the ammonia is at 0ppm with liquid testing (it's the only liquid test I have, everything else is strips, but I'm gonna buy more liquids now). Nitrites have been high for about 2 weeks or more. And nitrates have stayed the same, about in the middle of the scale, for about 2 weeks too.

Thanks! Did you see a decent ammonia spike? How is your ph?

Unfortunately, the amount of time that it takes to develop a nitrite-consuming bacteria colony runs almost double the amount of time that it takes to develop a healthy ammonia-consuming bacterial colony. Nothing to stress over though as mother nature works on her own schedule and most of the time, we just need some patience.

My suggestion right now is to add any plants (including the moss balls) and remove the shrimp/prawns if they are still in the tank (freeze them). As long as your ph is stable in a reasonable range, I would just wait and see. If things remain unchanged over the next week, a larger water change or two may be necessary to reduce nitrite levels further. Keep us posted and do not hesitate to ask questions!




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[Aneamals]

Thanks! Did you see a decent ammonia spike? How is your ph?

Unfortunately, the amount of time that it takes to develop a nitrite-consuming bacteria colony runs almost double the amount of time that it takes to develop a healthy ammonia-consuming bacterial colony. Nothing to stress over though as mother nature works on her own schedule and most of the time, we just need some patience.

My suggestion right now is to add any plants (including the moss balls) and remove the shrimp/prawns if they are still in the tank (freeze them). As long as your ph is stable in a reasonable range, I would just wait and see. If things remain unchanged over the next week, a larger water change or two may be necessary to reduce nitrite levels further. Keep us posted and do not hesitate to ask questions!




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Why should I remove the shrimp? Don't I need a constant source of ammonia?

 

[Aneamals]

Well, I bought the API master kit, tested my ph, found out my pH isn't 7.5, but 8.2. I'm really worried. All this time the test strips were telling me 7.5. How were they so wrong? I don't know how I can keep any small fish in my tank now. :I I removed all the sea shells I had except 1, just in case they had something to do with it.

I also tested my sink water, and it turns out it's 6.6 pH. I'm shocked how far the tank's pH and the sink's pH are. So maybe the sea shells could have something to do with it. I don't really know how to fix the pH then.

 

[jlk]

Well, I bought the API master kit, tested my ph, found out my pH isn't 7.5, but 8.2. I'm really worried. All this time the test strips were telling me 7.5. How were they so wrong? I don't know how I can keep any small fish in my tank now. :I I removed all the sea shells I had except 1, just in case they had something to do with it.

I also tested my sink water, and it turns out it's 6.6 pH. I'm shocked how far the tank's pH and the sink's pH are. So maybe the sea shells could have something to do with it. I don't really know how to fix the pH then.

Don't stress over the ph while your tank is cycling. Ph fluctuations are common and are only concerning if it drops to 6.5 (or less) as this can slow down the nitrification process.


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[Aneamals]

Don't stress over the ph while your tank is cycling. Ph fluctuations are common and are only concerning if it drops to 6.5 (or less) as this can slow down the nitrification process.


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Oh wow, that's great to hear then! Thanks!