Horizontal Control

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

I've been reading as to why my plants get 1/3rd up my tank and start growing horizontally. This affects hygro rosanervig (high light) and now I've noticed my Rotala Spec Nanjenshan doing the same (High-veryhigh light) but @ 3" above the substrate..

The best answer I can find is light penetration, I'm using 4x 6500k Philips daylight deluxe bulbs (2 T12, 2 T8 (2xODNO)) and 1 50/50 actinic/10k (thinking this is the problem)

Is it a safe assumption that the 10k/actinic is getting too much depth in the tank and keeping the plants down?

How do you guys keep your carpet plants horizontal and other plants vertical? is there something I can do different with different bulbs to promote vertical growth?

I'm sorta at a loss on this one...

I've swapped out the 50/50 bulb for a Flora Sun bulb I have here (man does it highlight the red in my gravel).. I would like others opinions on what the problem could be...

"75Gal FW
Pressurized Co2 w/ PH Controller. (waiting on Reactor) (KH 4-5 PH 6.6)
Est 4.1WPG(T12 Equiv 308W) 2 T12, 2 2xODNO T8 and a T6.(50/50) "

 

[travis simonson]

Whoo hoo, you got some good light man You are experiencing what is known as "light pressure." 4 wpg is a ton of light in anyone's book. Most European/Dutch tank enthusiasts stick with 2-2.5 wpg max becuse of this effect.

That much light causes plant to turn away or become what is known as "decumbate" because they believe they are at or near the top of the water column, even when they're not. Choose plants that are more light tolerant. Meaning, you have enought light penetration to raise even the most light requiring plants (i.e. Rotala macrandra, Pogostemon stellata "Fine-leaf", Ludwigia inclinata var. verticellata "Pantantal", etc.) You have one supercharged engine of a tank and you are trying to feed it low octane/ethanol type plants that just don't want/need that kind of light.

My advice: take advantage of that sun-in-a-box you've got going and plant the lower-light type plants in the areas of your tank that don't get the direct blasting effect of your light. Use it for effect and know that, even your shade is better than some people's direct light

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

So I shouldn't have overdriven my T8's then? they were doing this before that.

BTW, my Anubias Nana will shoot up to 5 leaves at a time (each plant) and Barterii is just behind at 2-3 / week.. but most get's algae on it and nothing will grow tall enough to shadow it.

I have some Rotala macrandra in there, just waiting to see if it get's a root hold to grow. (it hasn't changed since I put the stems in, but they are short stems..)

Out of curiosity, how much light do you have on your tank? I'm just curious as to what level ground is for a light level on my next tank.

 

[travis simonson]

No, no. I'm an American. We love all things in excess

There is no problem with your light levels, you just need to understand how they will affect your plants and plant accordingly. European purists would tell you that you are being ridiculous with the amounts of radiation that you are pouring down on your poor flora, though.

IMHO, if you can put 4wpg over a CO2 injected tank and keep it from veering craziliy off of the road, it's like driving a Ferrari. Not for everyone, but fun if you don't die a nasty death

You are riding a tightrope as far as algae goes, even with CO2. But you also have the opportunity to raise plants that no else can, simply because they actually require that much light. R. macrandra is a good example. It will grow under lower light, but will not likely take on that brilliant red coloration unless it gets tons o' light. You've got it.

My tank is somewhere in between 3.5 and 4 wpg and I have had similar problems with my Anubias leaves. It's a slow grower and will tend to attract algae because of this. One trick I've found is to keep PO4 levels at 1.0-1.5 ppm. In a supercharged tank like yours, this will help prevent green spot and dust algae from accumulating on the leaves of plants and on the glass (although there is no permanent cure for dust algae on the glass that I've found when running this much light). It's a real trick to keep nutrients balanced with that much light, but it's fun to try

You are in some rarified air my man. I would love to hear your observations. Please keep us posted

 

[Friendly]

I got some hygro rosanervig not too long ago and it has been growing horizontally as well. I currently only have 2.2 wpg. Is it growing that way because I don't have enough light?

 

[czcz]

So far, lowering current has gotten me straighter stems, even from plants that have a tendency to go horizontal. As Travis said, in the end straighter growing plants are the best solution. You have enough light for R. macrandra "narrow leaf," Ammania sp. "Bonsai," and others if you want them. Hygros just get hard to manage in high light, and if you do not want the bush effect it may be better to use another plant. Personally, if a plant wants to go horizontal I will let it until it crowds other stuff, then try to cultivate a bushy plant. I can see how this is a PITA to manage in a planned aquascape, though.

Congrats on the great growth!

 

[travis simonson]

Hygro, especially H. polysperma spp. tend to grow sideways. It is their nature. They will continue to do so until they take up all available horizontal space and then start back upwards, piling on top of their previous growth. This makes them a very hard plant to 'scape. I like to use them as a filler plant in spaces that I have no better use for. They fill spaces like water does a bucket - from the ground up, and don't tend to shoot out of their container, especially if you prune them judiciously. You may have to replant them from stem cuttings occaisionally to keep them healthy. Just cut them back ruthlessly if they try to escape their bounds. They won't complain

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

I've been uprooting the plant, cutting the bottom off and replanting the tops, it slows them down. but I am having a problem with it growing "trough" the other plants, it weaves it's way through the anubias making it a pain (I have no real intention of taking hygro to the next tank, but I'm hopeful that it will grow straighter with replanting the tops)

I do have a fair amount of current in the tank (Fluval 304 w. output nozzle, Maxijet 600 and a Maxijet 1200 piped to a spraybar (spraying towards the surface)

Sofar the most evident plant to grow horizontally is Hygro. I'll check the rotala later when the lights come on.

My PO4 is at 2, but I think my nitrates are higher then 10:1.. (If I don't vacuum the bottom the nitrates can build pretty quick to over 40) I'll test the water tonight. I still get green spot algae, so it would seem the best thing to do is to drop the lighting to 3WPG and make the tank more managable. (hitting some wet asphault?).. I didn't realize it could cause that much unpredictable growth.. If I plant a hygro within 5" of the glass it grows horizontally at substrate height (rooting itself all the way, even through other plants) then grows up the corner of the glass.. if leaves touch the glass they have a tendancy to do unpredictable things (typically algae, like greenspot on the leaves.)

My goal is a more managable tank with good enough light to grow about anything.. and at this much light I'm not seeing that..

"No, no. I'm an American. We love all things in excess"

 

[Simpte]

Just keep pruning. It will eventually grow upwards. Lots of plants do this no matter what you do to them. They perfer to grow sideways until the area is filled (like stated above). The 50/50 bulb isn't helping your plants much. CHanging it to a 6500K-10000K bulb (9325 would visually enhance yout tank) will give better penetration of the spectrums you need. 4wpg is a lot but doesn't normally keep plants from growing. We cannot match the sun's intensity in an aquarium but plants in nature still grow upwards. Some plants are just stubborn

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

We cannot match the sun's intensity in an aquarium but plants in nature still grow upwards. Some plants are just stubborn Smile

Oh yes I can, but probably with the same heat level

I still have some work to do with the plants, I was going to pick up some Vals. to help shade the Anubias.. figure it will easily get to the surface (21") and guarenteed to grow straight..

Most of the Rotala is growing vertical, it's just the 1 branch that decided to take a 90.. Will observe some more.

Perhaps I could put stickers on the stems that say "This side up"?? think it would help?

 

[Jchillin]

Perhaps I could put stickers on the stems that say "This side up"?? think it would help?

Perfect...that one is priceless.

I recently noticed several of my plants doing the same...thought it was due to the current so I replaced the output nozzle with my spraybar and now they are really confused. LOL!

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

Well, I noticed 1 of the hygro took an upwards turn, as most plants have,I changed the 2 T8 daylight deluxe bulbs out for Natural Sunshine full spectrum..

I contacted Philips, they are mailing me spectral outputs for both bulbs, I'll see if I can scan them in and post them when they get here to see what the difference is.